# Is Harry Reid a pederast? It seems the burden of proof is on him. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331 "2012-08-03T18:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/221 "2012-08-15T14:37:30Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Not even a gotcha ya. If one holds the proposition to be true that exploiting perfectly legal loopholes is immoral due to it leading to less federal revenue for social programs, then doing so on a wide scale is immoral. Just as advocating a regressive tax scheme is immoral. I’m voting for Obama, but I simply don’t buy the argument that paying the lowest amount of taxes the law allows is immoral. I’ll bring up my mortgage deduction again. It’s a deduction I get because I own a house and others don’t get because they don’t. Millions of people take the deduction. If I make an investment, I’d only be taxed on the profits at 15%. Is there some moral line that’s crossed by simply following the tax code? Yes, we need to reduce the available deductions and bring investment taxation in line with earned income taxation, but there’s nothing immoral about taking the available deductions. Look at Warren Buffet, who’s taking the deductions but using it as an example of how the system is broken. He’s also a very big philanthropist, so it’s not that he’s taking money from social programs to support his Faberge Egg habit or harm society. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/222 "2012-08-15T14:56:02Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So following the tax code law is immoral. Gotch ya. No, the structure of the tax code \*itself \*is immoral. \*Following \*it is not. Clear now? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/223 "2012-08-15T15:43:00Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I’m voting for Obama, but I simply don’t buy the argument that paying the lowest amount of taxes the law allows is immoral. I’ll bring up my mortgage deduction again. It’s a deduction I get because I own a house and others don’t get because they don’t. Millions of people take the deduction. If I make an investment, I’d only be taxed on the profits at 15%. Is there some moral line that’s crossed by simply following the tax code? > > Yes, we need to reduce the available deductions and bring investment taxation in line with earned income taxation, but there’s nothing immoral about taking the available deductions. Look at Warren Buffet, who’s taking the deductions but using it as an example of how the system is broken. He’s also a very big philanthropist, so it’s not that he’s taking money from social programs to support his Faberge Egg habit or harm society. IMO, it’s ploys like moving assets from one subsidiary to another or undervaluing assets (I’m not a tax professional; I’m sure this is wrong in one way or another) that is immoral. What they’re doing is legal, but wasn’t the intent of the law, rather they’re using loopholes of various degrees of legality to lower their tax burden. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/224 "2012-08-15T15:55:06Z")
Perception is everything in this. If the Democratic Party can continue to focus the debate (such as it is) on plutocratic millionaire behavior instead of something more complex (like how do we actually deal with the deficit and the crumbling infrastructure), then the race will be won. The GOP has suffered greatly by embracing the least intelligent subset of its demographic, the ultraconservative religious fanatics. Sometimes, I genuinely fear for the future of the republic. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/225 "2012-08-15T16:22:55Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, the structure of the tax code \*itself \*is immoral. \*Following \*it is not. > > Clear now? Great. So, the problem is with those in congress that have crafted the tax code. I couldn’t agree more. And as far as we know (Reid’s sleaziness aside) Romney did nothing legally or ethically wrong concerning his taxes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/226 "2012-08-15T16:53:22Z")
Legal and ethical are \*the same \*to you? :rolleyes: **Bricker** , how did you get **magellan01** ’s sign-on info? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/227 "2012-08-15T16:53:33Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Great. So, the problem is with those in congress that have crafted the tax code. I couldn’t agree more. And as far as we know (Reid’s sleaziness aside) Romney did nothing legally or ethically wrong concerning his taxes. They craft the tax code that way because really rich people like Romney tell them to. They hire lobbyists and the lobbyists get the ear of congress. Ordinary people like me don’t have the same access or influence because we don’t have the Koch’s brother’s money. So I wind up paying a higher tax rate than he does. Then I get told by the Reps to STFU and stop whining about it. The ludicrous pretense that innocent rich people have no choice in how much taxes they pay nor any imput in how the tax code gets written is bullshit. We don’t know what Romney did legally or morally. He won’t tell us. That’s the problem. Other candidates have told us. Romney has essentially said fuck you, Americans. He’s decided we have no right to know what he’s done with his money for most of his life. There’s the real sleaze. He could rebut Reid’s allegations in five seconds if he chose. He hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/228 "2012-08-15T17:39:58Z")
> [@HookerChemical](#): > > I’m not going to vote for Romney. No way in hell. I hate the Republicans with a deep passion. I’m not a huge fan of the Democrats, but they’re far more in line with my politics that I frequently vote for them. > > But Reid needs to put up or shut up. I’m leaning towards shut up. If he has evidence that Romney hasn’t paid taxes, he needs to present it rather that spouting off. > > Even if Romney didn’t pay taxes, I don’t care unless he did it illegally. He’d be a fool to pay more than needed to. (This applies to the “If Warren Buffet thinks he should be taxed more, he should just pay more,” argument as well.) If he did commit tax fraud, the IRS should really get on that. I think Reid is this whole thing up and effectively daring Romney to prove him wrong. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > He released his 2010 tax return. That’s what it showed. We’ll see his 2011 return in the fall. > > If he released 5 more years, people on the other side would be asking for 10. They’re asking for ten right now and with good reason. His IRA balances are improbably high without some sort of shenanigans, his transfers to his children seem larger than could be justified under the Unified Gift and Estate Tax without some significant undervaluation, and politically speaking, it would cement the narrative that the Republicans are primarily interested in reducing the tax burden on the rich if Romney paid close to or below 15% effective tax rate over the last 10 years. > [@mhendo](#): > > Option (1) is incredibly unlikely. Romney has been pursuing the presidency, in one way or another, for over a decade, and he and his advisers would have made damn sure that they took no deductions or other tax minimizations that might be legally questionable and jeopardize his political career even with people who agree with his politics. I wouldn’t be so quick to jump to this conclusion. We already know that corporations where he served on the board of directors engaged in very shady tax shelters. We see evidence of improbably high IRA values and very high welath transfers to his children. Many people suspect that he took advantage of the 2009 amnesty for a swiss bank account, which might be covering FBAR violations. There are legitimate concerns that rise above the level of birtherism. > [@magellan01](#): > > This would be brilliant if it were written by someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum form you. It brings sunshine to the morally bankrupt chant of “pay their fair share” (:rolleyes:). You don’t want the wealthy to pay a _fair_ share, you want them to pay _more_. And then _more again_. Because they can. > > Once again, you’re bankrupt positions and your monumental stupidity jump out of the mirror and put a clown nose and big floppy jackass on you. Smile! I think you are suffering a failure of reading comprehension. They don’t want the rich to pay more THAN their fair share,they want the rich to pay more OF their fair share. > [@magellan01](#): > > Excellent post. I think the real answer is that they just want to keep him on the defensive. Just think to all the things they could point to over 12 years. “…Then in 2006, Mr. Romney gave $5,000 to Organization X. Organization is now defunct and we can’t find out about it. Can Mr. Romney explain what he gave $5,000 to Organization X and assure us that there business practices were above board and in line with American values? And then there’s this tax he paid on investment made in Switzerland…” That’s Reid’s game plan. The problem with the taxes paid on investments in switzerland is that many people suspect that those swiss bank accounts didn’t appear on his tax returns until the 2009 amnesty program. IOW he had been hiding those assets that he was legally required to disclose under FBAR. > [@Clothahump](#): > > It’s very simple. Is he currently in jail for not paying his taxes? No, he is not. Therefore, he paid them to the satisfaction of the IRS, America’s own version of the Gestapo. If they aren’t after him, nobody else should be. Yeah, cuz the IRS catches every tax cheat. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > I’m voting for Obama, but I simply don’t buy the argument that paying the lowest amount of taxes the law allows is immoral. I’ll bring up my mortgage deduction again. It’s a deduction I get because I own a house and others don’t get because they don’t. Millions of people take the deduction. If I make an investment, I’d only be taxed on the profits at 15%. Is there some moral line that’s crossed by simply following the tax code? > > Yes, we need to reduce the available deductions and bring investment taxation in line with earned income taxation, but there’s nothing immoral about taking the available deductions. Look at Warren Buffet, who’s taking the deductions but using it as an example of how the system is broken. He’s also a very big philanthropist, so it’s not that he’s taking money from social programs to support his Faberge Egg habit or harm society. I think some people are saying the way thet ax code distributes the tax burden is immoral and that Romney is a good showcase for this inequity. Of course others are doing the equivalent of condemning Romeny for driving at the speed limit because they think the speed limit is too high. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/229 "2012-08-15T18:35:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I feel the opposite way. I’d be more concerned if he paid no taxes and was able to do it legally. > > There’s something wrong with a tax law system that lets somebody with as much money as Mitt Romney has pay no taxes while people like me do pay those taxes. I don’t want people who are part of that system to be running the government and that obviously includes being President. You mean like all those other nasty politicians who place those loopholes in the tax structure so they can take advantage of them, yet when the “other white meat” (rich folks) use the same loopholes it pisses them off? I think rich people should pay more in tax, but that includes all rich and by rich I mean rich. 250k a year aint rich ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/230 "2012-08-16T18:14:17Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > You mean like all those other nasty politicians who place those loopholes in the tax structure so they can take advantage of them, yet when the “other white meat” (rich folks) use the same loopholes it pisses them off? > I think rich people should pay more in tax, but that includes all rich and by rich I mean rich. > 250k a year aint rich If you are in the 98th percentile of all Americans, guess what? You are rich. Congrats! ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/231 "2012-08-16T22:18:59Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > If you are in the 98th percentile of all Americans, guess what? You are rich. Congrats! If all my friends own their personal Learjet and I must lease mine, I am not rich. If all my friends own 150 foot mega-yachts with helicopters, and I can only afford a 100 foot yacht, I am not rich. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/232 "2012-08-16T23:31:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If all my friends own their personal Learjet and I must lease mine, I am not rich. > > If all my friends own 150 foot mega-yachts with helicopters, and I can only afford a 100 foot yacht, I am not rich. Well, you may not **feel** rich, but that doesn’t mean that you **aren’t** rich. Yes, “rich” is a relative term, but it doesn’t depend only on who’s got the most and biggest toys within your personal circle of friends. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/233 "2012-08-16T23:34:20Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, you may not **feel** rich, but that doesn’t mean that you **aren’t** rich. I think **EP** was being sarcastic. I hope he was, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/234 "2012-08-16T23:49:50Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I think **EP** was being sarcastic. I hope he was, anyway. Just a tad. My jet unavailable (new paint job) so I’m feeling a little testy. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/235 "2012-08-16T23:57:57Z")
Well yeah, I didn’t imagine he was describing his own personal financial situation. (I figure **EP** is too cool for a Learjet; he’s a Piper or Beechcraft kind of guy.) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2012, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/236 "2012-08-17T00:00:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well yeah, I didn’t imagine he was describing his own personal financial situation. (I figure **EP** is too cool for a Learjet; he’s a Piper or Beechcraft kind of guy.) Learjets have attained a certain retro cachet. All the new money bought Gulfstreams. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331.md?page=11)