# Is Harry Reid a pederast? It seems the burden of proof is on him. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331 "2012-08-03T18:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/101 "2012-08-04T23:47:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Kennedy, not Kerry. Google “Romney Kennedy Tax returns”, and catch the avalanche in a bucket. And what did Kennedy do? Maybe Romney learned his lesson from that guy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/102 "2012-08-04T23:56:08Z")
He refused. So? Does Kennedy’s behavior justify anything? Oh, dear Og, you’re not going to pull the “liberal hypocrisy!” _schtick_ on us, are you? If you do, you gotta send **Bricker** a dollar, he owns that one now. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/103 "2012-08-04T23:57:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He refused. So? Does Kennedy’s behavior justify anything? > > Oh, dear Og, you’re not going to pull the “liberal hypocrisy!” _schtick_ on us, are you? If you do, you gotta send **Bricker** a dollar, he owns that one now. Actually, there’s way more than enough to go around. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/104 "2012-08-04T23:58:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know what you’re talking about, but if he did, it wouldn’t surprise me. The only thing that comes to mind is that he compared himself to Kerry, in that Kerry never releases his wife’s tax returns, and she had the real wealth in the family. But he never ran against Kerry, and I think he made a reasonable point in noting that. I was referring to when he was running against Shannon O’Brien in Massachusetts. When he was asked why he hadn’t released his tax returns when Mrs O’Brien had, his counter was pretty much her husband hasn’t released his. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/105 "2012-08-04T23:58:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > He refused. So? Does Kennedy’s behavior justify anything? No, but it might _explain_ something. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/106 "2012-08-05T00:05:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, but it might _explain_ something. Well, according to these guys, yeah… [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romneys-misleading-history-of-tax-returns-issued-by-presidential-contenders/2012/07/16/gJQAChunpW\_blog.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/romneys-misleading-history-of-tax-returns-issued-by-presidential-contenders/2012/07/16/gJQAChunpW_blog.html) > [@](#): > > …Romney, in his Senate race against Ted Kennedy in 1994, demanded that Kennedy release his tax returns, and Kennedy refused. In his 2002 race for governor, Romney cited Kennedy’s refusal, quoting him as saying, “I value my privacy.” Romney added: “I think he was right and I was wrong.” He never released his tax returns in that campaign… So, he saw the light? He had a “come to Jesus” moment, but it was Ted? Possible, I guess. Not buying any just yet, but possible. Heaven knows what thoughts crackle through the circuits of an animatronic Candidate. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/107 "2012-08-05T00:10:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I want the one whose interests are with the country, not himself. Like who? The Easter Bunny? It will be interesting to see you decry all the candidates of all the major parties this fall… ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/108 "2012-08-05T00:11:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’m not sure that this is quite a fair characterization. > > **Little Nemo** did say that he’d be “more concerned if [Romney] paid no taxes and was able to do it legally,” but it seems clear to me that his subsequent paragraph explained the big-picture political and economic context clearly enough to suggest that he’s not simply saying that he would “rather Romney illegally evade taxes.” > > It might seem like i’m nitpicking here, but i think there are important distinctions to be made in cases like this. > > Take the following hypothetical scenarios. I’m clearly just pulling numbers out of the air here to make the point: > > **Scenario 1:** Romney paid $500,000 in taxes last year. Romney was, according to the tax code, supposed to pay $5 million in taxes last year. He avoided paying the other $4.5 million through illegal evasions and failure to disclose income. > > **Scenario 2:** Romney paid $500,000 in taxes last year. This is what he was supposed to pay, according to the tax code. He filled out his tax returns correctly, and the large number of legal deductions brought his taxes down to $500,000. > > In discussing big-picture questions of tax policy and macroeconomics, i’m far more worried by Scenario 2 than i am by Scenario 1. This doesn’t mean that i think Romney should have refused to take his deductions in Scenario 2. I agree with you that basically everyone takes all of their allowed deductions when working out their taxes. Nor does it mean that i condone illegal tax evasion. > > The reason that i’m more concerned about Scenario 2 is precisely that it is structural and institutional and systemic, rather than an aberration. A person who uses _illegal_ tax evasion tactics can be caught, and brought to justice. A rich person who uses legal tax minimization is part of a system that needs adjusting, at least in my bleeding-heart, liberal-progressive viewpoint. And it seems to me that this is the context in which **Little Nemo** was making his point. > > Of course, Romney is running for President, and if i were considering voting for him, finding out that he had illegally evaded taxes would be a big issue. In that sense, given that this thread is not about all rich people but is specifically about Mitt Romney, i agree that illegal tax evasion would be a big deal. But even if all he did was legally minimize his taxes, he has made clear that he supports tax minimization procedures that benefit those who are already very wealthy, and in that context it’s an important issue for many voters. > > Here’s the distinction, for me, using another rich guy as an example: I’ll bet that Warren Buffet, when he submits his taxes each year, practices tax minimization. But Buffet is also campaigning for a tax _system_ that would raise the amount of taxes he is required to pay. I’m not down on Romney for using legal minimization on his own taxes; i’m down on him for wanting to maintain and even strengthen a regressive system. I just wanted to say that this was really nice post that got lost in the noise. If he paid very, very little in taxes relative to most Americans, it’s reasonable to ask if he will favor tax policies that strengthen and perpetuate that system, not ones that best serve the country. Because of his great wealth, there is potentially a whole lot of money at stake. A reasonable person might well decide that the apparent conflict of interest is not that big of a deal or is irrelevant, but it’s not a crazy question to ask in the first place, nor is it anything remotely like demanding he pay more taxes than he owes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/109 "2012-08-05T00:37:06Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I just wanted to say that this was really nice post that got lost in the noise. If he paid very, very little in taxes relative to most Americans, it’s reasonable to ask if he will favor tax policies that strengthen and perpetuate that system, not ones that best serve the country. Because of his great wealth, there is potentially a whole lot of money at stake. Well, Congress sets the tax rates, so maybe you should look more closely at the rich folks there. But Romney paid more federal income taxes than “most Americans” whether you look at the absolute amount or the tax rate since [most Americans pay no federal income tax at all.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/08/john-cornyn/john-cornyn-says-51-percent-american-households-pa/) Now, you can argue that someone like Romney should pay more, but that’s a different argument. He paid $6.2M in federal income taxes in 2010, so I think we can safely say he paid a lot more than “most Americans”. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/110 "2012-08-05T01:40:19Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > ^^ This ^^ > > I, too, think it’s hilarious to see one of ours finally learn how to play the right wingers’ game. Bravo, Mr. Reid, Bravo! > > (P.S. I wouldn’t be celebrating this behavior if there weren’t a long history of the right pulling this exact stunt. I think it’s time we give them a taste of their own medicine and let them percolate on this for a while. Because they more the freak the fuck out over this “no proof” screeching, the more I’ll point and laugh.) The left have learned to play the game. Apparently Mitt needs to prove he is [not a unicorn](http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/30/politics/romney-unicorn/index.html). :rolleyes: And seems Mitt was allegedly [born in the Cayman Islands](http://www.examiner.com/article/mitt-romney-has-his-own-birther-issue-cayman-islands), unless he proves otherwise. Too bad Cayman has no _[jus soli](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli)_ citizenship. Maybe Mitt really is a [stateless person](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_person)then!? :eek: That is rough for Mitt considering the [Birthers have turned on him](http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/05/unexpected-twist-birthers-turn-on-romney.html)!? :dubious: Or we could all come back to reality and have a campaign on the issues that matter. Nah! Never happen. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/111 "2012-08-05T01:55:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How much income tax above what you were required to by law did you pay last year? For me, a couple grand. I could take the the time required to wade through all the forms for a complicated return or pay the cost of hiring a tax professional to do it for me. Cheaper to just pay the IRS some unearned money. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/112 "2012-08-05T02:04:54Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I just wanted to say that this was really nice post that got lost in the noise. If he paid very, very little in taxes relative to most Americans, it’s reasonable to ask if he will favor tax policies that strengthen and perpetuate that system, not ones that best serve the country. Because of his great wealth, there is potentially a whole lot of money at stake. According to Republicans, every dollar in Romney’s pockets is good for the country, and anything which puts more dollars in his pockets is better for the country. We’ll never know if they truly believe it or not, but the idea is that those tax policies which strengthen and perpetuate that system really are those that best serve the country. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/113 "2012-08-05T03:20:37Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Yes, but at least he didn’t murder them afterwards like Glenn Beck. Now, let’s be fair. We don’t know that Beck killed anyone after raping them. It could have been before raping them. Or maybe he only killed them. Or only raped them. Or just urinated on them. Or nothing. We… just… don’t know. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Also, Reid is a Mormon, I wonder if there’s some kind of intranecine rivalry here. Do you mean “intramural”? > [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, please, please, please make this happen. And have a camera locked on Reid the whole time. 😃 It won’t. McCain hates Romney. > [@Oldeb](#): > > I gotta admit, I find this immensely amusing considering your defense of Bachmann’s letter about Abedin. The exact scenario you are proposing to clear Romney’s name actually occurred with McCain standing up on the floor to defend Abedin. And yet you can still defend Bachmann’s actions. I don’t know why you would expect others to take McCain seriously when you clearly don’t. Good burn. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/114 "2012-08-05T03:24:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, Congress sets the tax rates, so maybe you should look more closely at the rich folks there. But Romney paid more federal income taxes than “most Americans” whether you look at the absolute amount or the tax rate since [most Americans pay no federal income tax at all.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/08/john-cornyn/john-cornyn-says-51-percent-american-households-pa/) > > Now, you can argue that someone like Romney should pay more, but that’s a different argument. He paid $6.2M in federal income taxes in 2010, so I think we can safely say he paid a lot more than “most Americans”. I am not denying it’s a complex issue and there’s things to discuss. My point is merely that there are things worth discussing about not just the amount of tax he pays but the type of tax–carried interest and capital gains, most specifically. I mean, if Obama had some sort of complex position on intellectual property and copyright and taxes on profits earned through holding a copyright, the fact that a significant portion of his wealth comes from books he wrote would be relevant to the discussion. The issues of taxing and regulating the financial markets are relevant right now. They are going to be a big part of the national discussion for the next four years. It’s not unreasonable for a voter to want to know the extend of Romney’s financial interest in these markets. Note that I am not in any way defending Reid’s tactics. That’s just the worst sort of smeary, ugly politics. But there are reasons beyond making political hay for wanting to see the returns. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/115 "2012-08-05T04:21:38Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Do you mean “intramural”? I just made that word up. ‘Internecine’ was in vogue a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/116 "2012-08-05T06:40:38Z")
Wow, the amount of Republican reality disassociation is by mags and John in the last couple of pages is staggering. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/117 "2012-08-05T06:50:09Z")
With **Mags** its pretty much permanent, **John** just has these spasms every once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/118 "2012-08-05T13:09:00Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Wow, the amount of Republican reality disassociation is by mags and John in the last couple of pages is staggering. :eek: Can you point out something form my posts that is staggeringly disassociated from reality? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/119 "2012-08-05T13:22:13Z")
Well, your assumption that we should all be okay with it if Romney paid no taxes at all, for one thing. Remember, he’s the presumptive nominee of the party that constantly bitches about how half the population pays no federal income tax. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331/120 "2012-08-05T13:25:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, your assumption that we should all be okay with it if Romney paid no taxes at all, for one thing. You can quote the post where I said that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-harry-reid-a-pederast-it-seems-the-burden-of-proof-is-on-him/630331.md?page=7)