# Is hate speech really not banned on the boards? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [October 31, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283 "2015-10-31T20:20:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/102 "2015-11-03T15:54:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, I do believe that’s what you believe That’s the “that” I get. I just don’t _agree_ that that’s the right approach, and you don’t seem to understand why I don’t agree. I understand why you disagree. I understand that you believe that discussion of intelligence and race is of a different kind than other issues and should be suppressed. I don’t agree that it is so different from other kinds of discussions that it must necessarily be excluded. It seems to me that you also believe that I am unable to understand your position because of my race and culture (and neither can anyone else who does not share your own race and culture), which is rather ironic under the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/103 "2015-11-03T16:05:07Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I understand why you disagree. I understand that you believe that discussion of intelligence and race is of a different kind than other issues and should be suppressed. I don’t agree that it is so different from other kinds of discussions that it must necessarily be excluded. Is Race A taller than Race B? Does Race A have more upper body strength than Race B? Is there something about Race A that makes them faster runners than Race B? Is Race A have a greater risk of Disease X than Race B? Doe Race A have higher levels of melanin than Race B? Is it possible that Race A has better spatial reasoning than other races? Can Race A’s apparent inferior performance on tests compared to Race B’s be attributed, in any part, to genetics? I agree with you. I think all of these are perfectly fine topics to discuss. And, of course, if one does feel offended by any of them, they’re free to not discuss it, as well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/104 "2015-11-03T16:12:53Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > In fact, most of the interaction I’ve had in these two threads in ATMB have been with _iiandiiii_. Can’t you ever get my damn username right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/105 "2015-11-03T16:16:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Can’t you ever get my damn username right? 😉 I did. YOU are spelling it wrong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/106 "2015-11-03T16:18:18Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I understand why you disagree. I understand that you believe that discussion of intelligence and race is of a different kind than other issues and should be suppressed. I don’t agree that it is so different from other kinds of discussions that it must necessarily be excluded. _Necessarily_ excluded, no - there is possibly a place for a reasonable discussion about such subjects. One that starts with a foundational text that fraudulently claims “Africa is a continent of retards” is not that place. > [@](#): > > It seems to me that you also believe that I am unable to understand your position because of my race and culture Yes, I do. > [@](#): > > (and neither can anyone else who does not share your own race and culture) This is not true. I don’t believe I share a race or culture with, say, **Ramira** or **Ibn Warraq** , but I can well believe _they_ understand my position. Doesn’t take shared race or culture to have a shared experience. > [@](#): > > , which is rather ironic under the circumstances. I fail to see the irony - empathy can only take you so far. It’s a common characteristic of privilege, that it thinks it can know the unprivileged. You see it in men speaking for women, hell, there’s even a neologism for that. And this is similar - I’m here, telling you you don’t know how I feel, that you _can’t_, and you’re telling me that’s not the case. And you can do that, because you have the power to. That’s privilege. ETA - and the most telling thing was when you raised the existence of African-American mods, as though that were a get-out clause for this issue. Hell no - my own experience of African Americans is that they’re the worst offenders when it comes to that kind of Western privilege. You just have to look at **Nzinga** ’s last post in the other current thread to see that cultural sensitivity doesn’t matter to her at all. And that’s my common experience of African-Americans who come to South Africa, too. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/107 "2015-11-03T16:26:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > One that starts with a foundational text that fraudulently claims “Africa is a continent of retards” is not that place. If we had such a discussion it would be closed down. > [@](#): > > Yes, I do. What I were to claim that you were unable to understand why we permit such discussions because of your race and culture? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/108 "2015-11-03T16:41:04Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If we had such a discussion it would be closed down. Are you serious? Are you _really_ claiming the scientific realists have never cited Rushton or Lynn as foundational texts for their arguments? > [@](#): > > What I were to claim that you were unable to understand why we permit such discussions because of your race and culture? I’d say that must be a nice privilege you got there. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/109 "2015-11-03T17:15:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Try reading slower. why your comments are clear enough. all you do next is try to distract. > [@](#): > > My comments were not sparked by his comments alone. In fact, most of the interaction I’ve had in these two threads in ATMB have been with _iiandiiii_. I can not recall him displaying anything you attribute to the centre left tendency there. So it makes your comment more ironical. > [@](#): > > So, :rolleyes: yes you need to use that for your own comments given the gross hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/110 "2015-11-03T17:20:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [ **Ramira** or **Ibn Warraq** , but I can well believe _they_ understand my position. I understand it. but to play Don Quixote on this does not seem very useful. pragmatic windmills. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/111 "2015-11-03T17:21:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you serious? Are you _really_ claiming the scientific realists have never cited Rushton or Lynn as foundational texts for their arguments? That’s not what you said. > [@](#): > > I’d say that must be a nice privilege you got there. You really know very little about me except that I am a white American. You are drawing conclusions based purely on your personal biases about that. I wouldn’t consider my background privileged (although it appears you believe privilege must be based purely on skin color and nothing else). I grew up on public assistance; my father was unable to work and I was one of six kids. I was the first male member of my family to graduate high school. My Bronx neighborhood wasn’t an easy place; my next door neighbor and childhood playmate went to prison for murder (he beat a neighborhood drug dealer to death) and a number of my siblings’ friends were gunned down in the streets within blocks of our house. > [@MrDibble](#): > > This is not true. I don’t believe I share a race or culture with, say, **Ramira** or **Ibn Warraq** , but I can well believe _they_ understand my position. But that is presumably because of their race, skin color, or culture, even if it’s not the same as yours. > [@](#): > > ETA - and the most telling thing was when you raised the existence of African-American mods, as though that were a get-out clause for this issue. Hell no - my own experience of African Americans is that they’re the worst offenders when it comes to that kind of Western privilege. You just have to look at **Nzinga** ’s last post in the other current thread to see that cultural sensitivity doesn’t matter to her at all. And that’s my common experience of African-Americans who come to South Africa, too. If that’s the case, I’m afraid there is no solution to your problem. You want to moderate the board on the basis of the opinions of a tiny minority of our membership. I don’t see why we should do that. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/112 "2015-11-03T17:29:26Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If that’s the case, I’m afraid there is no solution to your problem. You want to moderate the board on the basis of the opinions of a tiny minority of our membership. I don’t see why we should do that. So, all we need to do is get more black posters (of any nationality but I suppose American would hold more weight since this is an American board after all) and we can finally get consistent moderation on topics of our intelligence in correlation to our race? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/113 "2015-11-03T17:29:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If we had such a discussion it would be closed down. in the GD they tolerate this type of discussion if it is said in a fashion that is flowery enough, with just a hint of the plausible deniaibility but citing the very sources like Lynn who says it directly. the manner this is treated is absurd. I would not shut this down. But the moderation that warns someone for stating in a direct fashion: > [@How many human races are there?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-many-human-races-are-there/732359/161): > > This leaves people like me assured with the idea that you’re a racist and this isn’t about science and finding justice for a taboo hypothesis, this is about your politics. this I find grotesquely hypocritical. An analytical statement. The same statement only not using the forbidden noun gains no warning which we know as there is the evidence as I did it . if you replace only the forbidden noun with the definition sentence copied from a dictionary goes without any comment. the idea that somehow the mere use of the noun in this fashion is terrible is absurd - of course it does not preclude the moderating actual use as abuse and insult. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/114 "2015-11-03T17:39:46Z")
> [@piepiepie](#): > > So, all we need to do is get more black posters (of any nationality but I suppose American would hold more weight since this is an American board after all) and we can finally get consistent moderation on topics of our intelligence in correlation to our race? According to **MrDibble** even that wouldn’t be sufficient. They would have to be both black and non-American (actually I think from the developing world as well). If you are African-American he feels you are too privileged to be capable of making judgments on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/115 "2015-11-03T17:48:12Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > According to **MrDibble** even that wouldn’t be sufficient. They would have to be both black and non-American (actually I think from the developing world as well). I don’t really care what he thinks (no offense, **MrDibble** ). _You_ more or less said that since there’s large number of Jewish posters, you moderate on their behalf when it comes to hate speech. If we had more black posters saying that “race realism” in GD is hate speech, then it seems to reason that moderation on those topics would be more consistent. I agree with **Ramira** that all this pedantry is just tilting at windmills, but would really prefer if those topics got tossed to the Pit. At least there black posters can rightfully give our proper opinions on those topics if we choose to engage. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/116 "2015-11-03T17:52:39Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@magellan01](#): > > Try reading slower. That’s a bit insulting. Attack the post, not the poster. You are expected to be reasonably civil and polite towards your fellow posters in ATMB threads. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/117 "2015-11-03T18:01:05Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > why your comments are clear enough. Yet, you seem unable to comprehend them. > [@Ramira](#): > > all you do next is try to distract. Ridiculous. > [@Ramira](#): > > I can not recall him displaying anything you attribute to the centre left tendency there. So it makes your comment more ironical. Laughable. If this is true you _really_ need to read more carefully. > [@Ramira](#): > > yes you need to use that for your own comments given the gross hypocrisy. Does not compute. I’m for more discussion, which means I’d be against language and tactics that tend to derail or end it. Like calling someone a liar or other insults do do similar damage to the discussion. [Oh, and look what someone invented?](https://www.google.com/search?q=close-up+of+Shift+key&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAWoVChMIxPuhu-j0yAIVhlg-Ch2kGwjY&biw=1428&bih=1007#tbm=isch&tbs=rimg%3ACSrXwegBtF5QIjg4W_1To1GMhCtktIWoGYt4tXXNlIHbOpH4rTy5NuZyjktBW6Ei-3Emq_1J5f3VfTcVaFf2nt8PdRVioSCThb9OjUYyEKEbDoMuCmbwM9KhIJ2S0hagZi3i0RH-F-E0DVkuQqEgldc2Ugds6kfhF7DXjSIG-PESoSCStPLk25nKOSEettzNKx2IgSKhIJ0FboSL7cSaoRJeFvZORC_1oUqEgn8nl_1dV9NxVhFDKzwvyGWq3yoSCYV_1ae3w91FWESDSObr4TPZj&q=close-up%20of%20Shift%20key&imgdii=hDgdKFKozCMGmM%3A%3BhDgdKFKozCMGmM%3A%3BTF1UfeMNVSmvBM%3A&imgrc=hDgdKFKozCMGmM%3A) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/118 "2015-11-03T18:02:51Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > That’s a bit insulting. Attack the post, not the poster. You are expected to be reasonably civil and polite towards your fellow posters in ATMB threads. Noted. Language adjusted. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/119 "2015-11-03T18:10:08Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Hear, hear, more speech. Until the powers that be start routinely sending such racialist shit-bait to the pit (where participants are freer in their voice) the mods, quite frankly, deserve all the extra criticism that comes with insisting that the SDMB self-muzzle. Is there a reason why you can’t start a Pit thread? If not, I don’t see how anyone is being required to self-muzzle. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/120 "2015-11-03T18:11:22Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Is there a reason why you can’t start a Pit thread? If not, I don’t see how anyone is being required to self-muzzle. > > Regards, > Shodan But, but, but, but…but… Actually, the answer is that that doesn’t allow them to marginalize a position sufficiently and make certain topics verboten. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283/121 "2015-11-03T18:15:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Is there a reason why you can’t start a Pit thread? If not, I don’t see how anyone is being required to self-muzzle. > > Regards, > Shodan Parallel pit threads are opened, every single time (that is, if there isn’t **already** a running pit thread on the same issue). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hate-speech-really-not-banned-on-the-boards/736283.md?page=7)