But that’s the point right? You don’t need to do that because it takes about 2 to 7 minutes to refuel an ICE. So you can put a gas station anywhere. So you don’t need one in your driveway or parking spot.
Ok, here we go again on this board. I’m not going to indulge this, it’s been in the news for years I don’t feel it’s my job to keep you posted on current events. I’m in a flowing conversation here.
It was the EU and California that I saw, but it keeps getting pushed back.
No, you need to provide proof for your assertions. Sorry if this offends you.
But this is just what I see from anti-EV folks; Evidence free assertions, based on “they said” or “I saw a video”. I’m not going to put up with it.
Ok understood. I will provide some cites.
You don’t need to charge an EV at every parking spot in the country. A huge % of parking spots are intended for transient use, like metered street parking, commercial parking at stores and other businesses, office parking, paid parking garages for temporary use in downtown areas, etc etc. Everyone who owns an EV needs some mechanism to charge their car, they do not need a charger everywhere they will ever park the vehicle.
So I will admit that a quick on the internet search brings up 2035, so you may think I’m proven worng. I will have to go my extensive print media collection that can’t be scrubbed. Motor Trend, Car and Driver ect.
You win for now, I’ll have to do this the old way.
Again, this is anti-EV misconceptions. Take a little fact, and blow it up into a big problem.
Less efficient \ne not working
There are several reasons EVs have a reduced range in the winter: denser air, snow tires, heaters, and cold batteries. Cold batteries warm up with use, so that’s only a problem on short drives. The range isn’t permanently reduced, just not available until the battery warms up. Heaters use lots of power to get the car up to temperature, and then less to maintain it. What that means is that on short drives it can be a 50% reduction in range, but that’s a short drive, so range doesn’t matter. On longer drives, it might only be a 10% reduction in range.
There are currently thousands of EV drivers in northern climates who get by fine. Also, we can expect fewer days with cold temperatures in the upcoming decades.
I get that you don’t need one for every spot. Where are apartment dwellers going to charge in the middle of winter when the battery wont hold a charge as long.
Say I’m living on the 3rd floor. Where do I charge my car since as you say I’m just transient at work. There may be a charger, there may not. What do you do then?
No one said they don’t work, but range is severely degraded and you have to charge more often. Do you dispute that?
That would depend on the type of building and the parking arrangement, right? I’m actually in the real estate industry and have developed apartment complexes. Near where I live in Virginia, in a more suburban setting, many apartment buildings are 2-3 stories maximum and every single apartment has at least one space guaranteed (they aren’t always assigned, but usually you can only register x number of cars per apartment so that the lot doesn’t overfill, and unregistered cars without a guest pass get auto-towed), in such a situation those spots could be given chargers. Land lords will not do this until economics demand it, but of course they could be incentivized via government programs.
I’m also familiar with a number of downtown apartment buildings where each resident actually has a private spot in a large parking garage–those could be fitted with chargers as well.
What about people who rent but in an apartment that comes with no parking space? Well, they have an issue not just with an EV, but with owning a car at all, right? Such people will always be in search of some form of parking, and how that gets solved will vary from location to location, some places may have enough street parking that they can semi-reliably find a place to park (but street parking spots are unlikely to have chargers on them), but some may opt to buy private parking, which would be more likely to have a charger system built out at some point.
Also a lot of people who rent in places where it is very common for there to be high rise apartments without any parking provided, often are living in cities where many people make do fine without cars at all.
Finally–EVs don’t have to solve every problem right now, gas cars aren’t going anywhere anytime soon. It’s a false dilemma in that sense.
What hatred? I’m not familiar with this “hate” and I’ve never hear anyone rail against EVs. It’s true that they’re not a “green” as some would have you believe. But, most everyone I know digs them. What’s not to like?
Something to keep in mind is with any new type of technology there are often early adopter problems, we are still very much in the early adopter stages of EV adoption. When people started adopting the automobile, cities were largely built around foot and horse traffic. In many cases the cities were manifestly unsuited to cars, sometimes even the roads themselves being very difficult for cars to use. It turns out just about every problem involved had solutions. They just took time to solve, and they also required greater scale and adoption of the technology to create the incentives for some of the problems to get solved. The availability of chargers, in my opinion, is not a major unsolved problem for EVs. I think current battery technology and some limitations around that, and the raw materials needed to make current generation batteries, are a major manufacturing scale up challenge. I frankly think for some form of battery EV to fully replace all ICE automobiles and trucks, we likely need some next-gen materials science to produce different types of batteries. Some of them, AFAIK, are in the “viability stage” in laboratories, which is many, many years from commercialization (I don’t keep abreast of this and am speaking of the cuff, so I could be off on my timing.)
I don’t care about “winning”, I’m not keeping score.
I care about accuracy. There are far, far too many inaccuracies about EV’s floating about these days.
I recall seeing on street charging in Amsterdam. It certainly could be done.
Careful, they might have also snuck into your storage and scrubbed those too!
Join me on my Facebook feed sometime. I see plenty of anti-EV copy pasta full of invective and bad
facts’.
Define severe. If “severe” is any decrease in range, then yeah, I guess it’s a huge problem.
From 15-30F, my efficiency is about 75% of my “rated” efficiency. That includes all trips over 1 mile. From 5-10F it is down to 60% efficiency, but that is made up of shorter trips, and is many fewer miles. My car is an old model with resistive heat; new models with heat pumps do better.
Maybe a 90% charge is “supposed” to get me 260 miles, but I really get 180. So what? That’s still more than enough to commute back and forth to work for most people for several days.
So sure, I have to charge more often, or not. I’m charging at home, so I just plug in the car when I feel like it, and in the morning it’s full. If I do that every few days and it charges for 6 hours or 5 hours, it doesn’t really matter to me. I could plugin every night if I cared to have a full battery every morning.
Decreased range in the cold is a real thing, nobody is disputing that. What I’m disputing is that it makes much of a difference in most cases (you can always construct some trans-Canadian road trip scenario).
If your car only has a 30 mile range in the cold? Then don’t buy a used Nissan Leaf that’s had it’s battery cooked and is only at half its design capacity in the best of times.
I do acknowledge that this becomes more difficult for people who can’t charge at home, but again, isn’t a deal breaker problem. The extra expense is also small, considering that gas cars are also subject to efficiency decreases due to denser air and snow tires.
I would add to that idling for 15 minutes in the morning to let it warm up. No, you don’t need to do (just accelerate a little more gently until it warms up (and it will probably warm up faster if you are driving it)), but a lot of people do it anyway.
But but but… I regularly commute 300 miles one way up a mountain range in -40 weather, pulling a horse trailer!
(Yes, this is the kind of stuff I see posted by folks who come into EV related sites to post a bunch of crap)
Only an 80-mile range, but still very cool.
