# Is hatred weak? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203 "2010-05-03T20:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d78d45/32.png) [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_know_nothing_1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/1 "2010-05-03T20:52:46Z")
Hatred seems like weakness to me. It causes the ‘owner’ to act emotionally and predictably. How then has it managed to survive for so long? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/2 "2010-05-03T20:57:57Z")
Because it either confers a survival advantage, or it confers no survival disadvatage. From a cultural evolutionary perspective, hate is good, or at the very least, not bad. If it was a weakness, those who were prone to it would be less likely to survive. History shows that not to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/3 "2010-05-03T20:59:37Z")
The Sith aren’t weak, foo! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/4 "2010-05-03T21:15:47Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > Hatred seems like weakness to me. It causes the ‘owner’ to act emotionally and predictably. How then has it managed to survive for so long? Two people; one loves everyone, the other hates everyone. The hater kills the lover. Where’s your survival advantage now, eh? Hatred, particularly hatred of percieved threats and The Other, confers obvious survival advantages by encouraging you to attack or interfere with those you hate, which by comparison is advantageous for the people you _don’t_ hate (like, yourself and your progeny). If you slaughter the neigboring tribe and take their stuff, you and your tribe profit. This effect is less pronounced in modern society where external punishments are applied, but it’s still not completely absent (as dead is still dead, even if the killer is in jail). That said, most _specific_ hatreds are clearly far too specific to have a genetic component underlying them. They’re just the case of having an aversion to someone or something, pegged to 11. Aversions in general are _clearly_ a survival trait, and the fact that you can have too much of a good thing wouldn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/5 "2010-05-03T21:16:18Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > Hatred seems like weakness to me. It causes the ‘owner’ to act emotionally and predictably. How then has it managed to survive for so long? Because that can be a strength or a weakness depending on circumstances. Hatred can motivate both the revolutionary who overthrows the tyrant and the bigot who kills the innocent. Or the scientist who works to cure a disease, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/6 "2010-05-03T21:19:58Z")
I once had a well respected friend and philosopher tell me that hatred and anger are all born out of another emotion…fear. Since fear is a natural response to the unknown…it is reasonable that those emotions would further manifest themselves as anger and hatred. Learn to control your fears and you can avoid hatred and anger. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/7 "2010-05-03T21:26:57Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > I once had a well respected friend and philosopher tell me that hatred and anger are all born out of another emotion…fear. > > Since fear is a natural response to the unknown…it is reasonable that those emotions would further manifest themselves as anger and hatred. > > Learn to control your fears and you can avoid hatred and anger. But how will I then master the power of the Dark Side? And bring order to the galaxy at my father’s side? I don’t think you’ve thought this through all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/8 "2010-05-03T22:16:48Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > Hatred seems like weakness to me. It causes the ‘owner’ to act emotionally and predictably. How then has it managed to survive for so long? What you said about hatred can apply equally to love. Hatred gets a bad wrap for some reason. It’s perfectly reasonable to hate some people. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/9 "2010-05-03T22:22:11Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Since fear is a natural response to the unknown…it is reasonable that those emotions would further manifest themselves as anger and hatred. Fear is also a natural response to known dangers. You can certainly hate what you know. ---
**Author:** ![I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d78d45/32.png) [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_know_nothing_1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/10 "2010-05-03T22:37:56Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Two people; one loves everyone, the other hates everyone. The hater kills the lover. Where’s your survival advantage now, eh? To close the example down to two like that you are left with something like; two haters=no future, one of each=no future, two lovers=future. There is apparently a survival advantage. Within a more nuanced debate where most people possess both traits it seems like hatred produces nothing, builds nothing, while love does. It is the positive that motivates science, medicine, architecture, etc., and the negative that knocks them down. ---
**Author:** ![I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d78d45/32.png) [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_know_nothing_1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/11 "2010-05-03T22:39:41Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It’s perfectly reasonable to hate some people. As long as they’re the people you agree should be hated? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/12 "2010-05-03T22:44:15Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > As long as they’re the people you agree should be hated? No. As long as it’s reasonable. The point is that hatred is a natural human response. If you murder my child, I’m going to hate you. If I DIDN’T hate you, I’d say there’s something seriously wrong with me. What constitutes “reasonable” can be debated. But so can everything else. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/13 "2010-05-03T22:51:31Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > To close the example down to two like that you are left with something like; two haters=no future, one of each=no future, two lovers=future. There is apparently a survival advantage. Nonsense - the two haters aren’t necessarily going to pull the trigger at exactly the same time. Whoever walks away can win pretty successfully. This isn’t the prisoner’s dillemma, when things axiomatically go south for both if both go uncooperative. > [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > Within a more nuanced debate where most people possess both traits it seems like hatred produces nothing, builds nothing, while love does. It is the positive that motivates science, medicine, architecture, etc., and the negative that knocks them down. Let’s see some nuanced debate for this then, because this seems like absurd hippie bunk to me. War is big business, and big wars have been credited with revitalizing entire economies. Which doesn’t sound like ‘nothing’ to me. And yeah, the person on the _losing_ side of the war doesn’t benefit, but so what? We’re talking about the potential benefits for the _aggressor_. ---
**Author:** ![I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d78d45/32.png) [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_know_nothing_1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/14 "2010-05-03T23:07:10Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Nonsense - the two haters aren’t necessarily going to pull the trigger at exactly the same time. Whoever walks away can win pretty successfully. But within this closed example there are only two extremes. The ‘winning’ hater is alone and therefore can’t reproduce. Was that not clear? If so I apologize. > [@begbert2](#): > > Let’s see some nuanced debate for this then, because this seems like absurd hippie bunk to me. As far as speaking for me, you will have to do a better job if want me to let you. I am asking a question. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/15 "2010-05-03T23:20:05Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > But within this closed example there are only two extremes. The ‘winning’ hater is alone and therefore can’t reproduce. Was that not clear? If so I apologize. Way to completely miss the point of the hypothetical, then. Congratulations! > [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > As far as speaking for me, you will have to do a better job if want me to let you. I am asking a question. The hell? There were no question marks in what I quoted. At all. You said, and I quote, “hatred produces nothing, builds nothing”. That’s pretty danged explicit, and that’s what I responded to. Whether you “let” me or not. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/16 "2010-05-04T00:08:20Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > But within this closed example there are only two extremes. The ‘winning’ hater is alone and therefore can’t reproduce. Was that not clear? If so I apologize. Evolution works on a species level, not an individual level. What happens between two individuals is simply not something natural selection accounts for; there’s no intelligence around to say “Oh crap, there’s only two people left in the world, I better keep them from killing each other.” Hatred is a signal that “this thing is a threat to my way of life,” whatever “my way of life” might be, and so confers an evolutionary advantage by motivating members of the species to protect their kin and defeat threats. If you didn’t hate, only loved, you wouldn’t see a threat to you and yours until it was too late. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/17 "2010-05-04T00:36:54Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > As long as they’re the people you agree should be hated? I don’t really see how this adds to the discussion. If you dispute my claim that it is reasonable to hate people in some circumstances, then, by all means, make your case. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/18 "2010-05-04T01:10:57Z")
> [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](#): > > As long as they’re the people you agree should be hated? There’s no reason why any two people are going to agree upon who should be hated. Different people have different moral intuitions and value judgments. ---
**Author:** ![I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d78d45/32.png) [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_know_nothing_1)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/19 "2010-05-04T01:51:21Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Evolution works on a species level, not an individual level. Correct. My mistake was answering a hypothetical. Probably no saving this now. ---
**Author:** ![I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d78d45/32.png) [@I\_know\_nothing\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_know_nothing_1)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203/20 "2010-05-04T01:55:56Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Nonsense - the two haters aren’t necessarily going to pull the trigger at exactly the same time. Whoever walks away can win pretty successfully. This isn’t the prisoner’s dillemma, when things axiomatically go south for both if both go uncooperative. > > Let’s see some nuanced debate for this then, because this seems like absurd hippie bunk to me. War is big business, and big wars have been credited with revitalizing entire economies. Which doesn’t sound like ‘nothing’ to me. > > And yeah, the person on the _losing_ side of the war doesn’t benefit, but so what? We’re talking about the potential benefits for the _aggressor_. Forget I ever responded to a hypothetical built on top of a hypothetical question. Back to the original question, how has it managed to stick around? No conspiracy theories will be responded to. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hatred-weak/538203.md?page=2)