# Is having an extra-marital relationship while separated ethically akin to an affair while together? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030 "2009-06-17T04:07:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/1 "2009-06-17T04:07:26Z")
[This Senator](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23813.html)is falling all over himself apologizing for having an affair while he was separated from his wife, with whom he later reconciled. .IMO relations that people pursue while separated are in a gray “working out the next step” zone, and aren’t really ethically comparable to having an affair while married in terms of breach of trust or breaking vows. Do you agree or disagree? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/2 "2009-06-17T04:28:35Z")
I suspect that he (or perhaps, his wife) and others may hold the opinion that if you’re separated, you’re still legally and morally married, and thus shouldn’t be fooling around - rather, the separation should be used to think things over without the stress of living together, to seek counseling, etc. Fortunately, I haven’t been in that position, but that would be my first assumption - I would probably figure that a separation isn’t a “we’re too lazy/cheap to get divorced” option, or a “I really want to boink that other person but am looking for a ‘get out of trouble free’ card option here” thing. However, I don’t have any strong feelings about how others handle the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/3 "2009-06-17T04:33:11Z")
What makes an affair unethical is deception and emotional betrayal. I think if there is no deception, and no understanding or expectation of fidelity, then there is nothing unethical. I don’t think Senator Ensign has anything to apologize for on that score, and he should probably just tell everybody it’s his own personal business and they can fuck off. The one aspect where the ethics of his situation become more murky is the fact that the staffer he was sleeping with was apparently married herself. Shagging people who are married (as in actively married, not separated) is ethically dangerous territory in my book. It’s still not very _important_, though, and it shouldn’t be something he has to resign over. How has he been on preaching “family values,” and Bible banging issues? Is he a hypocrite? I really don’t know much about this guy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/4 "2009-06-17T04:37:31Z")
1. I would imagine that being separated is a stressful and rather confusing thing. I could also imagine hints of thoughts like, “Revenge!” or, “Freedom!” occurring. You can’t blame people too much for the things that they do when they can’t be expected to be thinking straight. But at the same time, once in their right mind again, they should be feeling remorse. If they aren’t then it seems an awful lot like they’re using the separation as an excuse to do something they consciously wanted to do. 1. On the other hand, point 1 was stated from the position that a separation is something you do as a measure towards fixing your relationship. There’s also the view that a separation is intended as deciding whether you’re happiest _being_ separated and should divorce. In that case, sampling the entirety of life without your SO is not only acceptable, but possibly even expected. * * * Ultimately I’d say that it comes down to the individual actors and what they were thinking. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/5 "2009-06-17T04:55:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > 1. I would imagine that being separated is a stressful and rather confusing thing. I could also imagine hints of thoughts like, “Revenge!” or, “Freedom!” occurring. > > You can’t blame people too much for the things that they do when they can’t be expected to be thinking straight. But at the same time, once in their right mind again, they should be feeling remorse. If they aren’t then it seems an awful lot like they’re using the separation as an excuse to do something they consciously wanted to do. > > 1. On the other hand, point 1 was stated from the position that a separation is something you do as a measure towards fixing your relationship. There’s also the view that a separation is intended as deciding whether you’re happiest _being_ separated and should divorce. In that case, sampling the entirety of life without your SO is not only acceptable, but possibly even expected. > > * * * > > Ultimately I’d say that it comes down to the individual actors and what they were thinking. While I have seen a few separations that result in the marriage reconciling, it seems to me that in the large majority of cases separation is just the first step on the road to divorce. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/6 "2009-06-17T04:56:56Z")
I always sided with Ross Geller on this. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/7 "2009-06-17T05:00:43Z")
If you’re married, you’re married. You want to sleep with someone else, get a divorce. Separated is still married. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/8 "2009-06-17T05:29:37Z")
Rule of thumb as a single woman: If he’s separated, he’s still married. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/9 "2009-06-17T05:34:13Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [This Senator](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23813.html)is falling all over himself apologizing for having an affair while he was separated from his wife, with whom he later reconciled. .IMO relations that people pursue while separated are in a gray “working out the next step” zone, and aren’t really ethically comparable to having an affair while married in terms of breach of trust or breaking vows. > > Do you agree or disagree? Maybe i’m missing something, but your link does not say that Ensign was separated from his wife when this affair occurred. Nor does this [Washington Post article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/16/AR2009061602746.html), or this [New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/us/politics/17ensign.html?ref=politics). > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How has he been on preaching “family values,” and Bible banging issues? Is he a hypocrite? I really don’t know much about this guy. According to the _Post_ article i linked above: > [@](#): > > In September 2007, Ensign called then- Sen. Larry E. Craig (R-Idaho) “embarrassing” after Craig was arrested in an airport men’s restroom and pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct in a sex sting. Ensign played the leading role in an unsuccessful effort to force Craig into resigning from the Senate immediately. > > Ensign’s affair began a few months after he called for his colleague to resign, according to a timeline provided by his office. And from the _Times_ article: > [@](#): > > He and his wife, Darlene, were active for a time in Promise Keepers, a Christian evangelical ministry that promotes strong families and marriages. Must be one of those “Do as i say, not as i do” type of evangelical ministries. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/10 "2009-06-17T05:55:43Z")
The WaPo article also says he called on Clinton to resign during blowjob-gate, so yeah, it looks like he’s a huge hypocrite. You’re also right that these articles don’t say he was separated, so that changes my answer about whether it was ethical. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/11 "2009-06-17T07:17:22Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Maybe i’m missing something, but your link does not say that Ensign was separated from his wife when this affair occurred. Nor does this [Washington Post article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/16/AR2009061602746.html), or this [New York Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/17/us/politics/17ensign.html?ref=politics). According to the _Post_ article i linked above:And from the _Times_ article:Must be one of those “Do as i say, not as i do” type of evangelical ministries. The article is now twice as long, contains lots more personal data re the black mailer and has removed the statement that he was separated vs the original shorter one I originally linked to. The statement re separation was there when I linked. It was the entire point of this thread. [Here another copy of the one I linked to.](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/06/16/ensign/) > [@](#): > > Nevada Sen. Ensign admits to affair > Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev., flew home Tuesday. He had to miss a vote on a bill that impacts Nevada to do it, but he had good reason for doing so: Ensign was back In Las Vegas so that he could hold a press conference at which he acknowledged having an extramarital affair, reportedly with a former campaign staffer. > > “I deeply regret and am sorry for my actions,” Ensign said in a statement given to reporters. His wife, Darlene, is standing by him – in a statement of her own, she said, “With the help of our family and close friends our marriage has become stronger.” She added, “I love my husband.” > > The affair went on from December 2007 until August 2008, and was with a woman who worked for the senator’s re-election campaign and his political action committee, the Washington Post reports. The woman’s husband worked in Ensign’s Senate office. > > Politico reports that the affair began after Ensign separated from his wife, and that when the couple reconciled, he broke it off with the staffer – and gave her a severance package. But, the paper reports, the woman’s husband later asked for “a substantial sum of money.” This could explain the timing of the announcement, which came fairly suddenly and wasn’t made at the traditional time for breaking bad news – generally, a Friday afternoon, not a Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/12 "2009-06-17T07:25:58Z")
[Another link](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23813_Page2.html) > [@](#): > > Sources said Ensign strayed while he was separated from his wife. The two have since reconciled. And in a statement to the Las Vegas Sun Tuesday, Darlene Ensign said: “Since we found out last year, we have worked through the situation, and we have come to a reconciliation. This has been difficult on both families. With the help of our family and close friends, our marriage has become stronger.” ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/13 "2009-06-17T09:34:42Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Must be one of those “Do as i say, not as i do” type of evangelical ministries. _tries to think of one that isn’t_ ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/14 "2009-06-17T12:33:06Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > If you’re married, you’re married. You want to sleep with someone else, get a divorce. Separated is still married. Not that easy. In some states a period of separation is required by law before a couple can legally divorce. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/15 "2009-06-17T12:48:22Z")
I think it depends on the understanding between the couple. Surely most separating couples would have a discussion about this at some point–even if “discussion” just means “hurling accusations that the other person wants to sleep around”. If someone says “of course I’ll stay faithful”, then they are still as ethically bound as they ever were. If they say “I don’t know, I’m really confused” or “No, I want to try being single again to see if it’s what I want”, then they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/16 "2009-06-17T12:57:09Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Not that easy. In some states a period of separation is required by law before a couple can legally divorce. Seriously. I only learned this myself a year or two ago. The State still does regulate your marriage in some places. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/17 "2009-06-17T13:43:07Z")
If by “ethically akin” you mean “as morally objectionable,” it would depend on whether or not your moral code considered it as objectionable. If you are a follower of Jesus (and most of the Christians I’m aware of are not really “followers of Jesus”), then yes. Jesus said (as documented in the Holy Bible, KJV): \*Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. \*Matthew 19:8-9 \*Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. \*Mark 10:11-12 _Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery._ Luke 16:18 Further, Jesus also said: _That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart._ Matthew 5:28 So, considering the facts that he was indeed still married to his wife, and that he probably lusted after the paramour prior to the actual act of adultery, and that the fact that unless he divorced his wife for HER sexual indiscretion, even if he married the paramour, he would have committed adultery, then yes. IF you believe what Jesus Christ said. Just food for thought. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/18 "2009-06-17T13:46:18Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > If you’re married, you’re married. You want to sleep with someone else, get a divorce. Separated is still married. I agree with this. Are the two situations exactly equivalent? No, but either way, you’re still married. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/19 "2009-06-17T13:51:50Z")
I think it depends on the situation of the individual couple. As far as Ensign’s apology goes, it’s worth pointing out that he’s a potential presidential candidate and for that reason he has a motivation to get this out there and smoothed over as early as possible. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030/20 "2009-06-17T16:28:31Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think it depends on the understanding between the couple. Surely most separating couples would have a discussion about this at some point–even if “discussion” just means “hurling accusations that the other person wants to sleep around”. If someone says “of course I’ll stay faithful”, then they are still as ethically bound as they ever were. If they say “I don’t know, I’m really confused” or “No, I want to try being single again to see if it’s what I want”, then they aren’t. This is the key, i think. The measure of ethical behavior in this situation is whatever the couple themselves agreed on before the separation. If they both viewed the purpose of their separation as a first step to working things out and getting back together, then it was wrong of him to sleep with another woman. If they both viewed it as the first step on the road to inevitable divorce, then he can sleep with as many women as he wants. And if they left the whole thing unspoken, and with no clear understanding of what the separation was about, then he probably should have been more considerate, but probably also has a reasonable excuse. As **Dio** said, they key here is whether there was deception and betrayal of one party by the other. Of course, as in the whole “Ross and Rachel” situation, it’s possible that both parties had a different understanding of what a separation actually meant for their relationship. These things can get messy sometimes, and it’s entirely possible for two parties, each in good faith, to come to very different conclusions about what they signify. > [@Marley23](#): > > I think it depends on the situation of the individual couple. As far as Ensign’s apology goes, it’s worth pointing out that he’s a potential presidential candidate and for that reason he has a motivation to get this out there and smoothed over as early as possible. At least one of the news stories that i’ve read suggested that this confession was, in fact, a clear marker of his intention to make a run. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-an-extra-marital-relationship-while-separated-ethically-akin-to-an-affair-while-together/500030.md?page=2)