# Is having kids selfish or selfless? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 2, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089 "2006-06-02T00:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/41 "2006-06-03T07:27:11Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > I do not see any grounds on which having children can be regarded as selfish. Having kids means pain, effort, expense, difficulty. Having kids means changing diapers. etc. Then why do people have kids? Because they’re masochists? Sure - there’s work involved, and you’ve highlighted that - but there must be enough benefits to be able to offset it, right? Otherwise why would people ever choose to have children? So because there’s work involved doesn’t mean that it’s not selfish, or that the person doesn’t benefit from it. Personally, I’m puzzled and irritated that having kids, in our society, is looked upon as an almost heroic thing to do. As if people deserve to be treated with reverence, to get a medal, because they had a kid. It’s no great selfless act - they did it because they thought it would benefit their lives to do so. It might be because it fills a hole in their life, emotionally, or gives them a sense of purpose, or a bunch of other things - but they did it for selfish reasons. And I’m not saying that’s necesarily bad - although in plenty of cases it is. People that have kids and then fail to raise them properly certainly are bad. But the process is inherently neutral at best - so it puzzles me why society reveres parents as saints like they do. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/42 "2006-06-03T07:43:48Z")
Tell me if you think this is pompous or not. It’s a conversation I over heard on a plane ride a few years ago. Couple one: “So do you all plan on having kids?” Couple two: "No! You know we see these families standing in line (at the airport) with their strollers and the kids are screaming at the top of their lungs. NOT to mention how much MORE they must have to pay for air fare and things like that. Me and my wife always say to each other: Why would ANYBODY want to put up with that nightmare?" Hey, to each his/her own but I can’t help feeling sorry for people who have such a limited outlook on life. /speaking as a proud father of course!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/43 "2006-06-03T12:01:01Z")
I always thought having a child = selfish; not having one, while not selfless in the sense of a sacrifice, was certainly not a bad thing for society. Now, having had a child, most of that is confirmed. While the decision to have a child may be selfish, being a parent is not selfish in itself because you no longer put yourself first and all your energy and time is dedicated to caring for your child(ren) I have certainly become more individualistic as a person. When I was childless, I had time and energy to dedicate to causes and to other people, that I simply have had not had since becoming a parent. My primary concern now is my child’s well-being, and that of the family, and as most of my energy is taken up ensuring this, I have ended up being an armchair activist and perhaps not such a devoted friend, able to drop everything and support someone in need. ---
**Author:** ![Lorenzo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4da419/32.png) [@Lorenzo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorenzo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/44 "2006-06-03T18:17:18Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Children don’t have to cure cancer or save the world to be an important part of our society. It takes all levels of talent, strength, love, humor, grace, compassion, etc, to make the world go 'round. We all make a contribution. Methinks **Elza B’s** point here is that it would seem most unlikely that any one individual person’s decision not to have children would have much of an impact on the outcome of human history. FWIW, some folks believe that the final outcome of history is independent of the actions of any one individual–the end is set; do you want to play for one team or another or sit on the sidelines? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/45 "2006-06-03T20:37:12Z")
I think that the initial question simply does not compute. We need to breed to perpetuate the species. There is no more and no less. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/46 "2006-06-03T22:17:34Z")
I believe intentionally having kids is selfish and I kind of roll my eyes when people make a big deal about how a “baby of their own”. But I believe choosing not to have kids can also be selfish. But to me, selfishness is not necessarily a bad thing. It can be, but it can also be a neutral thing. For instance, I don’t have my home opened up to every homeless Tom, Dick, and Harry. I do this out of concern for self, but I don’t think anyone would fault me for not doing this. My reasons for not having children are strictly selfish. I like my space, my free time, not having to worry every minute, not having to wake up early, not having to change dirty diapers, not having to deal with excess noise and chaos. My choice doesn’t have anything to do with the potential child’s quality of life–but _mine_. I don’t think I’m a bad person for feeling this way. The kind of selfishness that’s bad, though, is when a person knows they probably shouldn’t have a baby but do anyway because they want to (“have to” due to morals/ethics is a different consideration). ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/47 "2006-06-03T23:13:02Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > We need to breed to perpetuate the species. Actually, at the current rate of overpopulation, as many of us as possible would be well advised not to breed if we are to help the survival of the species. We are breeding ourselves into extinction. We do \*\*not \*\*need more kids around. However, for most people afflicted with “breeding sickness”, this simply does not seem to figure in the equation. I’ll agree that this is a reasonably new situation for humanity, but please, wake up and smell the roses. These are no longer the days of the emperor Augustus, those great old times of high infant mortality and a small population, when a woman needed to bear five children just to keep the population constant, and when it made sense to fine couples who didn’t reproduce. We really need to get the heck out of that kind of mindset. Today, it’s the mindless procreation that should be punishable. As soon as the global population drops to a sensible level, we might consider thinking about it in different terms again, but not yet. Anyway, that little rant aside: in my not-so-humble opinion, having kids is a completely selfish act. The reasons why I think so have already been well stated by other dopers above. Reasons I hear given in favor having kids are always selfish ones: To carry on the name / the genes, to have someone to care for yourself in your old age, to “fulfill” your life, etc. You never hear any really selfless arguments for having kids, because, well, there aren’t any that would make sense. For these reasons I have made a firm decision not to reproduce, if I can avoid it. Well, that, plus the fact that I’d make a lousy parent. I was put into the world by parents who had kids for no good reason, and who then proceeded to do a very half-assed job of raising them. I certainly have no desire to carry on that tradition. However, adopting kids, kids that are already in the world and need care, is, in my opinion, the opposite of spawning them yourself - I consider adoption to be a completely selfless act. In this case, you take care of someone who needs it with no obvious benefit to your own genes. So, if you really \*have \*to have a snotty crap-machine around the house, and you \*really \*want to do some self-sacrifice - for goodness sakes, adopt! There are plenty of kids already out there who need homes. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/48 "2006-06-06T11:40:26Z")
It is not selfish to want to bring a child into the world, to raise that child to become an independent person; your goal is the forming of a child’s selfhood, and that’s not selfish. But I wonder about some folks though. We all know them. They want a child and their reasons haven’t changed since _they_ were a child. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/49 "2006-06-06T13:12:09Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > I do not see any grounds on which having children can be regarded as selfish. Having kids means pain, effort, expense, difficulty. Having kids means changing diapers. Having kids means long, sleepless nights of comforting a crying baby. Having kids means dealing with ear aches, head aches, tummy aches, and various other aches. Having kids means parent-teacher conferences. Having kids means spending August at home, driving them to summer camp when you’d rather be taking a cruise. > > Do you really think that anyone has children if they don’t intend the children to be the center of their life? Do you really think that there’s anyone for whom love of the ikds isn’t the driving force? Do you think that when parents are up treating an ear infection at two in the morning, they’re thinking about passing on the family name? Do you really think that people endure PTA meetings because they want someone to take care of them when they’re old? Do people change diapers in order to complete themselves? Oh yes I do. I know **for a matter of fact** there are many many parents who just have kids by accident and now they are stuck with them. I was one of those kids, and my mother generally neglected me and ignored me until I was adopted. The mere act of having kids doesn’t mean any of that stuff you said. No one can make you do all that stuff. You have to actually want to go on to the next step(s). ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/50 "2006-06-06T18:33:23Z")
> [@Peak Banana](#): > > Actually, at the current rate of overpopulation, as many of us as possible would be well advised not to breed if we are to help the survival of the species. We are breeding ourselves into extinction. Umm… There’s only overpopulation in two areas: China and India. The rest of the world doesn’t have that problem. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/51 "2006-06-06T19:15:51Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Umm… There’s only overpopulation in two areas: China and India. The rest of the world doesn’t have that problem. Site, please? ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089/52 "2006-06-06T19:19:20Z")
> [@Large Marge](#): > > Site, please? Or cite, even? :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-having-kids-selfish-or-selfless/359089.md?page=2)