# Is Heightism Real? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909 "2010-08-29T19:38:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/41 "2010-08-30T15:00:21Z")
Apparently, FDR was the first president to appear on TV: [http://www.nyu.edu/classes/stephens/History%20of%20Television%20page.htm](http://www.nyu.edu/classes/stephens/History%20of%20Television%20page.htm) The first televised presidential debate was in 1960: [http://www.essortment.com/all/firsttelevised\_rfbn.htm](http://www.essortment.com/all/firsttelevised_rfbn.htm) Here is a list of all of the presidents since FDR, and their heights: ```auto Barack Obama 6ft1in George W. Bush 5ft11½in Bill Clinton 6ft2in George H.W. Bush 6ft2in Ronald Reagan 6ft1in Jimmy Carter 5ft9½in Richard Nixon 5ft11½in Lyndon Johnson 6ft3½in John F. Kennedy 6ft0in Dwight D. Eisenhower 5ft10½in Harry S. Truman 5ft9in Franklin D. Roosevelt 6ft2in ``` > **[Heights of presidents and presidential candidates of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heights_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_and_presidential_candidates)** > > A record of the heights of the presidents of the United States and presidential candidates is useful for evaluating what role, if any, height plays in presidential elections. Some observers have noted that the taller of the two major-party candidates tends to prevail, and argue this is due to the public's preference for taller candidates. > The tallest U.S. president was Abraham Lincoln at 6 feet 4 inches (193 centimeters), while the shortest was James Madison at 5 feet 4 inches (163 centimet... Number below 5’9": zero ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/42 "2010-08-30T15:16:22Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > …According to a recent survey by the American Society for the Study of Shit People Can’t Do Anything About, … I did a thread about one of their studies just a few days ago – [**Study links depression to poverty. Duh.**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=575909) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/43 "2010-08-30T17:24:12Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > > Um, no, they DO fight against discrimination according to height. Often to destructive extremes like forbidding height requirements for jobs where size matters, like firefighting. > > Find me a speech from a major politician condemning height-based discrimination. If it’s a really on their minds, it should be no problem considering how much politicians love to talk. And mere talk is a long long way from effective enforcement. I’m not convinced that heigh-based discrimination is conscious and/or systematic in the ways that gender-, race-, & sexual-orientiaton-based discrimination is. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/44 "2010-08-30T17:37:36Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > This is funny coming from the guy who keeps making threads asking if he’s a racist bigot. > > Yes, because claiming that a black man, a woman or someone with a non-heterosexual orientation is much more severely discriminated against than short white heterosexual men is just so outrageous. I like what you did there. You didn’t just say that blacks, women and gays/trans/whatever are discriminated against, you said that the short white men are the ones standing around being complete tools and getting in paramedics way. Meanwhile the Asians are the ones causing the accidents amirite? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/45 "2010-08-30T17:41:39Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Short white men are the people standing at the site of a car accident complaining to the medics about a sprained ankle while people are bleeding out on the ground. Yes, we know it hurts a bit and we’ll get to it, but people on the ground need our help more. But if you would chip in it would make the whole thing go faster. It’s strange how little sympathy there is for short men who can’t do anything about their condition. Compare that to [the sympathy overweight and obese people get on the SDMB](http://www.google.com/search?q=overweight+discrimination+site%3Aboards.straightdope.com&). FWIW, I’m 5’ 10". ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/46 "2010-08-30T18:51:15Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Yes, because claiming that a black man, a woman or someone with a non-heterosexual orientation is much more severely discriminated against than short white heterosexual men is just so outrageous. > > I like what you did there. > > You didn’t just say that blacks, women and gays/trans/whatever are discriminated against, you said that the short white men are the ones standing around being complete tools and getting in paramedics way. > > Meanwhile the Asians are the ones causing the accidents amirite? Nope, that is not what I said. Translated to your example I said that white, short men _who complain they are being discriminated against in the face of other groups that suffer far more discrimination_ should stop whining and chip in. And what the hell is the “Asian” comment about? Are you trying to insinuate that I’m a racist, based on the fact that I think short white men aren’t as discriminated against as non-whites, non-heterosexuals and non-males? What the hell kind of debate tactic is that? ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/47 "2010-08-30T19:00:12Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The average height for an adult American male is 5’9.2", not 5’11". Cool, did not know that. So I’m tall by American standards. > [@elmwood](#): > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Short white men are the people standing at the site of a car accident complaining to the medics about a sprained ankle while people are bleeding out on the ground. Yes, we know it hurts a bit and we’ll get to it, but people on the ground need our help more. But if you would chip in it would make the whole thing go faster. > > It’s strange how little sympathy there is for short men who can’t do anything about their condition. Compare that to [the sympathy overweight and obese people get on the SDMB](http://www.google.com/search?q=overweight+discrimination+site%3Aboards.straightdope.com&). > > FWIW, I’m 5’ 10". FWIW I have sympathy for short people, just not as much sympathy as I do for people suffering more severe discrimination. And the sympathy I do have evaporates as soon as they want society to prioritize their specific plight. I think that if you asked a short, black, lesbian woman which of the 4 discriminations she’s rather get rid of, the heightism would come dead last every time. And I’m actually not sympathetic at all towards fat people on an individual level. You eat more calories than you use, you get fat. Eat less or burn more calories, it’s not rocket science. There are however structural injustices and economical systems that make it more difficult to have a healthy weight, and I do think that is a huge problem right now for the US, and will be for other countries in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/48 "2010-08-30T19:10:28Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > It’s strange how little sympathy there is for short men who can’t do anything about their condition. Compare that to [the sympathy overweight and obese people get on the SDMB](http://www.google.com/search?q=overweight+discrimination+site%3Aboards.straightdope.com&). > > FWIW, I’m 5’ 10". Why should I have sympathy for short men when there is so much discrimination against men who go prematurely bald, women with facial hair, people with lazy eyes, people who can’t dance, and assholes like me. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/49 "2010-08-30T20:39:03Z")
Crap. I fit into two of those categories. Now I no longer feel as privileged. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/50 "2010-08-30T21:59:58Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > Nope, that is not what I said. Translated to your example I said that white, short men _who complain they are being discriminated against in the face of other groups that suffer far more discrimination_ should stop whining and chip in. Go ahead and point out where you specified that you were referring to short, white men who complain that they are being discriminated against: > [@Stoneburg](#): > > Short white men are the people standing at the site of a car accident complaining to the medics about a sprained ankle while people are bleeding out on the ground. Yes, we know it hurts a bit and we’ll get to it, but people on the ground need our help more. But if you would chip in it would make the whole thing go faster. And as for this: > [@Stoneburg](#): > > Are you trying to insinuate that I’m a racist, based on the fact that I think short white men aren’t as discriminated against as non-whites, non-heterosexuals and non-males? I couldn’t hear you with all that straw in your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/51 "2010-08-30T22:10:57Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Nope, that is not what I said. Translated to your example I said that white, short men _who complain they are being discriminated against in the face of other groups that suffer far more discrimination_ should stop whining and chip in. > > Go ahead and point out where you specified that you were referring to short, white men who complain that they are being discriminated against: Uhh…? I don’t understand why you are asking? It is right there, the complaining part. And as for this: > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Are you trying to insinuate that I’m a racist, based on the fact that I think short white men aren’t as discriminated against as non-whites, non-heterosexuals and non-males? > > I couldn’t hear you with all that straw in your mouth. How else am I supposed to interpret: _“Meanwhile the Asians are the ones causing the accidents amirite?”_ ? That I think Asians are somehow behind discrimination? I don’t think we’re understanding each other. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/52 "2010-08-30T22:52:53Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > I couldn’t hear you with all that straw in your mouth. > > How else am I supposed to interpret: _“Meanwhile the Asians are the ones causing the accidents amirite?”_ ? That I think Asians are somehow behind discrimination? > > I don’t think we’re understanding each other. I think you missed a DWO reference there. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/53 "2010-08-30T23:51:08Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > Go ahead and point out where you specified that you were referring to short, white men who complain that they are being discriminated against: > > Uhh…? I don’t understand why you are asking? It is right there, the complaining part. > [@Stoneburg](#): > > Short white men are the people standing at the site of a car accident **complaining to the medics about a sprained ankle** while people are bleeding out on the ground. Yes, we know it hurts a bit and we’ll get to it, but people on the ground need our help more. But if you would chip in it would make the whole thing go faster. You mean the bolded part? Since when does complaining about a sprained ankle = Complaining that you’re being discriminated against? You say “Short white guys are the ones who stand around complaining about sprained ankles” and you think that you weren’t being racist? ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/54 "2010-08-31T01:38:50Z")
I’m 5’4. I’m f’ing short. I’d kill to be 5’9. Basically people don’t always take you as seriously, especially when you look young as well. Literally at least 5 times a week someone will ask my age and when I tell them I’m 24 they are surprised to say the least. In fact, one of the managers at my works first words to me, in front of everybody was “what are you 12?”. He realized it was a dick thing to say and apologized shortly after but still. The worst part though is women. If there even a little taller, rarely do I have a chance. Some even say “you’re cute, I’d date you but you’re too short.”. And some are just bitches who will straight up ignore you or attempt to humiliate you because (and this is only my opinion) you’re small. It’s all good though. I think in some circumstances it might even be easier to make friends since I don’t look very threatening. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/55 "2010-08-31T01:45:28Z")
One more thing. I’m doing well at my job now, but it’s all over the phone and I never have to see any of my clients. Imagine I want to be a high school teacher though. Mostly everyone at that school is going to be taller than me. Now whether the people who are doing the hiring are open and honest about it or not, I do believe my height is going to be considered and unfortunately work against me. ---
**Author:** ![asian\_riff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecccb3/32.png) [@asian\_riff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asian_riff)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/56 "2010-09-01T02:44:36Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe we can force people to wear handicaping devices like in the story ‘Harrison Bergeron’ so no one has to feel inferior to anyone else? > > According to a recent survey by the American Society for the Study of Shit People Can’t Do Anything About, it turns out that things like being taller, prettier, more athletic, having a pleasent speaking voice, being more outgoing, confident, smarter, hardworking, and being raised by successful parents who make you do your homework tend to afford certain advantages. > > I remember reading an article awhile back that around 50 or so years ago, a lot of the top schools (Ivy League, etc) only recruited “men of a certain sort”. Obviouslly that meant white anglo protestant heteros but turns out it also meant students who didn’t look like “nerds”, “dorks” or “pussies”. They just wanted strapping, good looking, athletic scholar types (well…so much for hetero). Judging by both my undergrad and business school, that unwritten policy hasn’t seemed to change much except that there are a lot more Jews. > > For every short guy I know (I run a little over 5’10" or about average) who is quiet and meek, I probably know one who is a short little overcompensating loudmouth. > > In the idiotic world of corporate America, I’m sure good looking tall men have a distinct advantage because they just ‘look’ more executive and authoritative than some 5’3" child-man. > > If the OP is really looking to “maximize his income” after graduation, I suggest transferring to a to 50 college and switching majors to finance. Or wear lifts. You seem to have a lot of anger towards short people. That’s odd. I can imagine someone disagreeing, but to be angry about it I don’t really understand. In fact, it seems to be a general theme in this thread. Some people don’t want to discuss the topic, they only want to discuss how angry it makes them. Odd, considering the question was merely, “Is heightism real?”, not “Should society pass laws against heightism?” or “Is heightism worse than the discrimination against other groups?”. The anger seems out of proportion to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/57 "2010-09-02T19:23:14Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Uhh…? I don’t understand why you are asking? It is right there, the complaining part. > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > Short white men are the people standing at the site of a car accident **complaining to the medics about a sprained ankle** while people are bleeding out on the ground. Yes, we know it hurts a bit and we’ll get to it, but people on the ground need our help more. But if you would chip in it would make the whole thing go faster. > > You mean the bolded part? > > Since when does complaining about a sprained ankle = Complaining that you’re being discriminated against? > > You say “Short white guys are the ones who stand around complaining about sprained ankles” and you think that you weren’t being racist? Is the analogy not clear to you? The injuries are due to discrimination. White men who are short suffer a relatively minor discrimination compared to non-white, non-male and non-heterosexuals who suffer major discrimination. Everyone who isn’t a white, healthy, tall, heterosexual man is being discriminated against, but the discriminations are of different severity and therefore of different importance. If your only basis for discrimination is that you are short you are lucky because the majority of people in the world is discriminated against much more severely than you, is my point. But now you’re saying I am a racist because I think so? Your reasoning is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/58 "2010-09-02T22:09:05Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > You mean the bolded part? > > > > Since when does complaining about a sprained ankle = Complaining that you’re being discriminated against? > > > > You say “Short white guys are the ones who stand around complaining about sprained ankles” and you think that you weren’t being racist? > > Is the analogy not clear to you? > > The injuries are due to discrimination. White men who are short suffer a relatively minor discrimination compared to non-white, non-male and non-heterosexuals who suffer major discrimination. Everyone who isn’t a white, healthy, tall, heterosexual man is being discriminated against, but the discriminations are of different severity and therefore of different importance. If your only basis for discrimination is that you are short you are lucky because the majority of people in the world is discriminated against much more severely than you, is my point. > > But now you’re saying I am a racist because I think so? Your reasoning is beyond me. None of this was present in what I quoted. You’re just adding it all on now. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/59 "2010-09-02T22:24:27Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > blah blah blah > > > [@Stoneburg](#): > > > > blah blah > > blah blah blah Do you guys have any idea what the other is saying? You’re mixing sarcasm and serious statements. Stoneburg - You’re saying short people’s complaints are too loud in proportion to their problem, right? Clockwork - You think Stoneburg is a racist because of some other thread, and referencing short ‘white’ men instead of short men, right? Stoneburg - Do you understand the Asian reference? Asians are reputed to be bad drivers. He’s presuming that you believe that. Clockwork - I didn’t receive any faxes. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909/60 "2010-09-02T22:38:49Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > blah blah blahblah blah blah > > blah blah blah He said that short white men are the ones who stand around complaining. That is, short black men and short white women don’t stand around complaining. My original intent wasn’t even to make a big deal out of it, just to point out how funny it was considering that he was trying so adamantly to figure out if he was racist in other threads. He’s got the answer now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-heightism-real/551909.md?page=4)