# Is High-Speed Rail a good idea for California? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 16, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457 "2012-07-16T23:51:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/182 "2019-02-12T21:26:25Z")
Bumping this thread. [‘Let’s be real.’ Gavin Newsom says he’ll cut back on California’s high speed rail plan](https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article226151030.html) \*In his first State of the State speech Tuesday, Gov. Gavin Newsom called for the state to scale back the focus of its high speed rail project to focus on one portion in the Central Valley. “I have nothing but respect for Governor Brown’s and Governor Schwarzenegger’s vision. I share it,” Newsom said. “But let’s be real. The current project, as planned, would cost too much and take too long.” He said there’s “simply isn’t a path” to build high speed rail to connect the northern and southern parts of the state. But the rail line can link Central Valley cities Merced and Bakersfield, he said.\* I dunno. It seems scaled-back so much it makes me wonder if it would even be viable at that level. I wish the Governor would remember Business 101: it’s not where you spent your last dollar, it’s where you spend your next dollar that matters. Maybe this is just part of a hoped-for stepping-back process, where this is the first step. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/183 "2019-02-12T21:33:02Z")
So what’s the point of connecting only Merced and Bakersfield with high-speed rail? Is Merced so horrible that people need a fast way to get out of town? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/184 "2019-02-12T21:37:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So what’s the point of connecting only Merced and Bakersfield with high-speed rail? Is Merced so horrible that people need a fast way to get out of town? And then, once you get out of town, you’re in Bakersfield? I guess if you want to flee Merced, you better buy a round-trip ticket. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/185 "2019-02-12T22:10:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And then, once you get out of town, you’re in Bakersfield? I guess if you want to flee Merced, you better buy a round-trip ticket. Yeah, I think this is a solution looking for a problem. There is already a regular train connecting the two cities, and I am not sure if that is having trouble keeping pace with demand. The only way I could see a “Central Valley” high-speed train having any benefit at all is running non-stop from somewhere in the north, say Stockton (access to Bay Area and Sacramento) to Bakersfield, where people could link to already existing bus connections to the L.A. area. The key is NON-STOP. If the high-speed train stops in every little city along the way (Merced), then it starts to take as much time as the existing rail service. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/186 "2019-02-12T23:46:29Z")
Hopefully this means they’ll quit throwing cash into that money pit. Does anyone happen to know how many federal dollars got wasted on this misadventure? ETA: BTW, this might be the only time I ever say this, but kudos to Newsom for approaching this with some degree of sanity instead of just continuing the delusion. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/187 "2019-02-13T04:33:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So what’s the point of connecting only Merced and Bakersfield with high-speed rail? Is Merced so horrible that people need a fast way to get out of town? Cancelling the entire thing would save more money, but would lead to triumphalist smugness among those of us who have been predicting disaster since the start. Building a small stretch of rail is essentially spending 5 billion or so for the state of California to save face. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/188 "2019-02-13T05:40:30Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Cancelling the entire thing would save more money, but would lead to triumphalist smugness among those of us who have been predicting disaster since the start. Building a small stretch of rail is essentially spending 5 billion or so for the state of California to save face. By the time they’re done, I suspect it will cost them more than $5B. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/189 "2019-02-13T05:56:48Z")
Stockton is also only a small step up from Bakersfield. No one wants to go to Bakersfield, and sure as shit not fast. I have a running bet with someone that the bullet train would never get built, it would take a crazy long time to realize this and it would cost a crapload. Perfect for CA. This state is so screwed up. We have nice weather though. And only occasional devastating wildfires. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/190 "2019-02-13T08:06:16Z")
What a boondoggle. And it’s [not just intercity railways](https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-expensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/) that the USA sucks at building at a reasonable price. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/191 "2019-02-13T10:15:15Z")
Maybe we should build a bullet train along the border. It’ll cost as much as the Wall and provide that critical San Diego-Brownsville link we so desperately need. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/192 "2019-02-13T19:38:39Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Cancelling the entire thing would save more money, but would lead to triumphalist smugness among those of us who have been predicting disaster since the start. Building a small stretch of rail is essentially spending 5 billion or so for the state of California to save face. Yeah. I dunno. Such a waste already, with the condemned land, immanent domain and people’s home removed in some communities to make way for this. Now there are structures already in place in some areas (e.g. just north of Fresno) standing as monuments to this boondoggle. I have no idea what they could be used for if not HSR. Maybe they can move the regular rail lines over to the HSR right of way to help the freight traffic some. I think I read that they want to finish “something” so they can still use $3.5B the Federal Government has already contributed, rather than give it back (to Trump). When I was speculating about Stockton to Bakersfield, I was not thinking people would go to those cities as a destination, but more that they would be end-points to a non-stop HSR route linking cities in NorCal to cities in SoCal, via bus/regular rail connections at each end. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/193 "2019-02-13T20:06:17Z")
The new California line will capture that gnormous transit crowd from downtown Fresno to the suburbs. Hard for a fleet of 747s to compete with that. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/194 "2019-02-13T21:49:16Z")
Reminds me of a **Creedence Clearwater** song. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/195 "2019-02-13T22:51:11Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > In terms of what is possible in the next 50 to 100 years, the best option would be evacuated subway tubes running maglev trains. Wow–Elon Musk used to post here? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457/196 "2019-02-13T23:02:15Z")
Building subway tunnels is crazy-expensive: > [@](#): > > [The approximate range of underground rail construction costs in continental Europe and Japan is between $100 million per mile, at the lowest end, and $1 billion at the highest. Most subway lines cluster in the range of $200 million to $500 million per mile](https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/01/why-its-so-expensive-to-build-urban-rail-in-the-us/551408/) It costs even more here in America. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-high-speed-rail-a-good-idea-for-california/628457.md?page=9)