# Is Hillary Clinton really a frontrunner for the Democratic candidate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 27, 2006, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223 "2006-07-27T05:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/41 "2006-07-27T20:36:11Z")
Republicans and conservatives tend to hate and fear strong women who don’t publicly conform to traditional gender roles: see “Jane Fonda” the one person out of the millions who hated the Vietnam War that they chose to pillory for opposing it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/42 "2006-07-27T20:43:37Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Republicans and conservatives tend to hate and fear strong women who don’t publicly conform to traditional gender roles: [/quote] Yeah, that’s why they hate Condi so much. > [@](#): > > see “Jane Fonda” the one person out of the millions who hated the Vietnam War that they chose to pillory for opposing it. Yeah, why didn’t they hate all those millions of other women who posed, smiling, on a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun. I mean, the nerve of those evil conservatives! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/43 "2006-07-27T20:45:48Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Yeah, that’s why they hate Condi so much. [/QUOTE] They only like her when she obeys her husband. ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/44 "2006-07-27T20:46:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Once again, **why?** [/QUOTE] She sponsored a flag burning amendment. She wants the government to get involved in video game ratings. She’d be too easy to cast into the ‘big-government-tax-n-spend democrat’ stereotype imo. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/45 "2006-07-27T20:56:53Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] They only like her when she obeys her husband. [/QUOTE] And the winner in the category of logical contortionism goes to… **Fear Itself**! Give it up for **Fear** , everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/46 "2006-07-27T21:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Well, Wikipedia’s been sanitized, so no luck there. Eh. Well, I know she is jumping on the video games are the devil bandwagon, like Tipper’s PMRC in the 80s. I remember disliking her approach to health care, and disliking her approach to education, as well. [/QUOTE] I posted a few specifics. [QUOTE=spazattak] She sponsored a flag burning amendment. She wants the government to get involved in video game ratings. She’d be too easy to cast into the ‘big-government-tax-n-spend democrat’ stereotype imo. [/QUOTE] But many Republicans are not opposed to ratings on video games or banning flag-burning. Libertarian or small-government types might be bothered by that, but it isn’t everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/47 "2006-07-27T21:07:13Z")
Condi IS perceived as being dutifully obedient and loyal to W. She never contradicts him or tries to think for herself. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/48 "2006-07-27T21:08:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know anyone who’d consider themselves “slam-dunk blue” who’d pick HRC as a first-choice candidate. That’s another one of those conservative lies, IMO. “Hillary must be horrible for the country because all the lefties love her!” Nah, this is my opinion based upon my own experience. The people who like Hillary as a candidate seem to be from DC or NY or are the kind of people who have no friends outside their circle of like-minded folk (lots of them here in Boulder). If they got out more and talked to the general public, they’d see the hate. “Tough women” aren’t exactly the favorite of your average union guy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/49 "2006-07-27T21:08:54Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Condi IS perceived as being dutifully obedient and loyal to W. She never contradicts him or tries to think for herself. [/QUOTE] By whom? The whacky left? Condi was a favorite of conservatives long before she “hooked up” with Bush. ---
**Author:** ![spazattak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/50 "2006-07-27T21:22:16Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I posted a few specifics. But many Republicans are not opposed to ratings on video games or banning flag-burning. Libertarian or small-government types might be bothered by that, but it isn’t everybody. [/QUOTE] I cited that as an instance of pissing off democrats (or more specifically me, who doesn’t seem to fit in anywhere - wish there was a party for progressive civil libertarians:( ). And forgive the side-track, but video games are already rated by the ESRB. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/51 "2006-07-27T21:29:42Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] And the winner in the category of logical contortionism goes to… **Fear Itself**! Give it up for **Fear** , everyone! [/QUOTE] [ñ \*\*\* Whooosh!!! \* \*\* ñ](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/4/19/115132/840) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/52 "2006-07-27T21:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] By whom? The whacky left? [/quote] By pretty much everyone. Can you give an example of her ever publicly disagreeing with the President? > [@](#): > > Condi was a favorite of conservatives long before she “hooked up” with Bush. They like their tokens. I wonder if how many of them know she’s pro-choice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/53 "2006-07-27T21:52:03Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] By pretty much everyone. Can you give an example of her ever publicly disagreeing with the President? [/quote] Don’t be ridiculous. Can you give an example of any Sec of State ever publicly disagreeing with the president under which he/she serves? It’s simply not done. Besides, how do you know it’s not he that agrees with her on any given issue? > [@](#): > > They like their tokens. Just so. > [@](#): > > I wonder if how many of them know she’s pro-choice. I wouldn’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/54 "2006-07-27T22:02:59Z")
[QUOTE=spazattak] I cited that as an instance of pissing off democrats (or more specifically me, who doesn’t seem to fit in anywhere - wish there was a party for progressive civil libertarians:() [/quote] Tell me about it. I cited all of those things as actions that pissed me off. What I was saying is that I don’t know how many Democrats are really worried about how easy it is to cast someone in the “big government” mold. Even if many of them are worried about it, the video game and flag-burning things are not the kind of thing that would stir up people who most often use “big government” and “tax and spend” as slurs. > [@](#): > > And forgive the side-track, but video games are already rated by the ESRB. I know. See my link for more details about the legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/55 "2006-07-27T22:03:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Don’t be ridiculous. Can you give an example of any Sec of State ever publicly disagreeing with the president under which he/she serves? [/quote] Colin Powell. But most SoS’s don’t get promoted as a reward for already being a toady. > [@](#): > > It’s simply not done. Besides, how do you know it’s not he that agrees with her on any given issue? Because she’s not stupid enough to come up with those policies on her own. Besides, it’s well known that Bush does not take advice. His expectation of his cabinet and staff is that they will counsel him but that they will agree with him and carry out his orders. Any contrary opinion, no matter how constructive, is viewed as sedition. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/56 "2006-07-27T22:04:53Z")
> [@](#): > > His expectation of his cabinet and staff is that they will counsel him That should be, “His expectation…is NOT that they will counsel him…” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/57 "2006-07-27T22:05:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Colin Powell. [/QUOTE] Not a chance. You’ll have to show me the money on that one. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/58 "2006-07-27T22:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I posted a few specifics. But many Republicans are not opposed to ratings on video games or banning flag-burning. Libertarian or small-government types might be bothered by that, but it isn’t everybody. [/QUOTE] Specifics, maybe, but not precise enough. I was hoping to find quotes and events more precise than the video game issues, and I was hoping to find stuff back in the Clinton era. Hi. Small government type Republican who’s been marginalized over here. To hell with Hillary, to hell with Ashcroft, and to hell with Gonzales. Bush, I want to keep out of hell, he’s already got a leg up on a job as a Duke of the 9th Pit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/59 "2006-07-27T22:18:38Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Besides, it’s well known that Bush does not take advice. His expectation of his cabinet and staff is that they will counsel him but that they will agree with him and carry out his orders. Any contrary opinion, no matter how constructive, is viewed as sedition. [/QUOTE] So, what does Rove do? Bush is not inclined to take advice from those who aren’t extremely close to him and whom he doesn’t fully trust. Condi isn’t in either of those categories. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223/60 "2006-07-27T22:32:43Z")
The isolated Washington media has to write about something, so they tell each other somebody’s the clear frontrunner. If that meant anything at this stage, we’d now be finishing up Pete Wilson’s second term as President, after he succeeded John Glenn. Wait at least a year, preferably longer, before any of this shit starts to mean anything. Concentrate on the Congressional elections for now, okay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hillary-clinton-really-a-frontrunner-for-the-democratic-candidate/366223.md?page=4)