# is "hir" an official term now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 17, 2013, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592 "2013-05-17T10:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/1 "2013-05-17T10:57:11Z")
[According to Google it is.](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-sprint-us&source=android-browser-type&hl=en-US&q=hir+definition&spell=1&sa=X&ei=pAyWUcmjGYiW0QGiqoCABg&ved=0CCwQvwUoAA&rlz=1Y1MWHT_enIN513IN513) I have actually already started using it. So is it an official word that can be used now? If so, please state its official date of entry into the English language and its pronunciation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/2 "2013-05-17T11:09:12Z")
There is no such thing as an “official term” in general English. And the Google definition doesn’t say anything about its being “official,” mostly because it can’t. If you work for a person or organization with an “official” style guide then you might say that a term is “official” for _that entity’s publications_, but that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/3 "2013-05-17T11:20:57Z")
My real question is: can I actually use this word now and have it be correct? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/4 "2013-05-17T11:24:41Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > My real question is: can I actually use this word now and have it be correct? It’s like any other word in English—it depends on whether your audience thinks it’s correct. Figure out who your audience is and see if they buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/5 "2013-05-17T11:29:32Z")
What do you mean by “According to Google it is”? What you linked to was not the result of something that Google itself produced. What you linked to was a Wikipedia entry. You may have found that entry by a Google search, but that says nothing about what Google officially endorses. Furthermore, the entry you cite only barely mentions “hir”. It just says that “hir” is one of a number of proposed pronouns. It doesn’t even indicate whether there are many people using those words, and it says nothing about what is official. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/6 "2013-05-17T11:39:08Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > If so, please state its official date of entry into the English language and its pronunciation. What do reputable dictionaries say about its pronunciation? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/7 "2013-05-17T11:42:57Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > If so, please state its official date of entry into the English language . . . That would be the date when it was first used, and someone else understood it. English is not French. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/8 "2013-05-17T11:43:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s like any other word in English—it depends on whether your audience thinks it’s correct. > > Figure out who your audience is and see if they buy it. Does the Dope buy it? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/9 "2013-05-17T11:54:24Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > Does the Dope buy it? Your question has a flawed premise–namely, that there’s any such thing as “correct” terms. There’s what’s called Standard English, and that’s a nebulously defined term, but I’ve not seen “hir” in anything resembling standard English. If you’re writing in a business environment (e.g., a college application, a letter to a business, etc.), you’d probably do well to avoid the term unleess you wish to make a political point. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/10 "2013-05-17T12:05:06Z")
Not many people regularly use gender-neutral pronouns of any sort in their posts, so I’d say no. I went to a crazy liberal dirty hippy college. IME, “hir” and “zhe” were used mostly for academic writing in gender studies departments. I rarely encountered it in every day speech or writing, even from the advocates of gender neutral pronouns. In certain social circles, people will expect gender neutral pronouns. In other settings, people won’t know what you’re talking about. Some people will dismiss you as That Crazy Liberal Guy\* With An Agenda. \*where I grew up, “guy” is gender neutral. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/11 "2013-05-17T12:19:19Z")
I’ve never seen “hir” used to mean “gender neutral”. I have seen it used as a pronoun in fiction for hermaphrodites however. [Star Trek novels](http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Hir), for example. ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/12 "2013-05-17T12:26:08Z")
I use it when I don’t know the gender. That happebs quite a bit here. Oh and “zhe” is a word? Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/13 "2013-05-17T12:40:24Z")
I’m going to start using “happebs”. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/14 "2013-05-17T12:48:31Z")
Since gist of your question would be whether the term has become generally acceptable: no. It’s still mostly a gender-studies word. Plus, there is nothing wrong with them and their. And they’ve been in use since the 1600s. It is the most common word used for the concept, to the point that the NIV, the most popular English modern Bible translation, now uses it. They based their translation vocabulary entirely on usage studies. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/15 "2013-05-17T12:54:43Z")
FWIW, it’s pronounced as “here”, at least according to this site: > **[ze and hir – Gender Neutral Pronoun Blog](https://genderneutralpronoun.wordpress.com/tag/ze-and-hir/)** > > Posts about ze and hir written by Shino ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/16 "2013-05-17T13:18:50Z")
I agree that “them” and “their” has a lot more social acceptance, although I still wouldn’t use it in standard English, due to the language mavens who get all uptight about such things. I love the recent organic use of “yo” in Maryland teenagers for gender-neutral references, and I hope that it gains circulation, although i’m not optimistic that it will. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/17 "2013-05-17T13:24:15Z")
From Wikipedia’s page on [Gender-neutral pronouns, specifically Invented Pronouns](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Invented_pronouns), I found this to be helpful: > [@](#): > > Like most efforts at language reform, these well-intended suggestions have been largely ignored by the general English-speaking public, and the project to supplement the English pronoun system has proved to be an ongoing exercise in futility. Pronouns are one of the most basic components of a language, and most speakers appear to have little interest in adopting invented ones. This may be because in most situations people can get by using the plural pronoun they or using other constructions that combine existing pronouns, such as he/she or “he or she”. I don’t use the invented pronouns, and instead of he/she I tend to use s/he. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/18 "2013-05-17T13:26:32Z")
> [@Anonymous User](#): > > I use it when I don’t know the gender. That happebs quite a bit here. Oh and “zhe” is a word? Cool. No substitutes for he and she or their variants have ever made their way into the language. If you use one it will stick out like an affectation or a solecism or a weirdness. The use of “they” has been growing in acceptance because the variants don’t work. And nothing is wrong with using “he or she”. So it’s a couple of extra characters. Big deal. Or you could learn how to write around the problem so the issue never comes up. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/19 "2013-05-17T13:35:58Z")
hir knows. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592/20 "2013-05-17T13:39:03Z")
If one doesn’t mind sounding a bit pretentious, one may use “one” as a gender-free pronoun. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hir-an-official-term-now/658592.md?page=2)