# Is "Hollywood" more driven by liberal secularism or money? (Regarding Hannity's new film) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108 "2017-10-29T01:17:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/21 "2017-10-30T16:48:03Z")
I haven’t seen Hannity’s movie, but I’m quite prepared to believe it’s awful. A lot of Christian-themed movies are. That said, do I believe Hollywood regularly churns out movies with a social or political agenda, even when there’s no chance the movies will make money? Definitely. There is NO market for movies about McCarthyism, but Hollywood can’t make enough of them. It sure isn’t because they’ll rake in big bucks. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/22 "2017-10-30T17:12:43Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > That said, do I believe Hollywood regularly churns out movies with a social or political agenda, even when there’s no chance the movies will make money? Definitely. There is NO market for movies about McCarthyism, but Hollywood can’t make enough of them. _Good Night, And Good Luck_ pulled in $56m on a $7m budget, and _The Way We Were_ was just huge. So figure there’s at least some demand, there, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/23 "2017-10-30T18:14:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > There is NO market for movies about McCarthyism, but Hollywood can’t make enough of them. To be fair, Hollywood was a direct victim of McCarthyism. So, I would expect some attempts to tell the story. As for a social or political agenda, yeah, the agenda being McCarthyism was bad. I suppose a contrary view to that would be stories promoting the agenda of Hollywood Communists being bad, which would be worth exploring. But I would suppose that wouldn’t make any money either. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/24 "2017-10-30T20:52:05Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > That said, do I believe Hollywood regularly churns out movies with a social or political agenda, even when there’s no chance the movies will make money? Definitely. There is NO market for movies about McCarthyism, but Hollywood can’t make enough of them. Cite? AFAICT, there are not in fact [very many Hollywood movies about McCarthyism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_about_McCarthyism). And they were not by any means all box-office failures. Got any assertions about any other particular “social or political agendas” about which “Hollywood regularly churns out movies” even when “there’s no chance the movies will make money”? Because your McCarthyism example seems to be largely unsupported by the facts. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/25 "2017-10-30T22:09:45Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Cite? AFAICT, there are not in fact [very many Hollywood movies about McCarthyism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_about_McCarthyism). And one of those is on the list just because it starred a guy named Kevin McCarthy. And another is the movie _Clue_, which is a comedy about Professor Plum, Miss Scarlet, Colonel Mustard etc., who have various secrets to hide, which I guess would be sort of related but not “about” McCarthyism. Another is _The Manchurian Candidate_. So there are even fewer films really about McCarthyism than would appear from that list. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/26 "2017-10-30T22:43:47Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > And another is the movie _Clue_, which is a comedy about Professor Plum, Miss Scarlet, Colonel Mustard etc., who have various secrets to hide, which I guess would be sort of related but not “about” McCarthyism. Communism was just a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/27 "2017-10-31T01:09:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Cite? AFAICT, there are not in fact [very many Hollywood movies about McCarthyism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_about_McCarthyism). And they were not by any means all box-office failures. > > Got any assertions about any other particular “social or political agendas” about which “Hollywood regularly churns out movies” even when “there’s no chance the movies will make money”? Because your McCarthyism example seems to be largely unsupported by the facts. When Jim Carrey wanted to leave his comic image behind and try to win an Oscar, what movie did he make? “The Majestic.” He knew Hollywood ( but nobody else) eats that stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/28 "2017-10-31T01:28:07Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > When Jim Carrey wanted to leave his comic image behind and try to win an Oscar, what movie did he make? “The Majestic.” He knew Hollywood ( but nobody else) eats that stuff up. That’s **one** “Red Scare” movie that didn’t do well commercially; it doesn’t even come close to substantiating your previous sweeping claim. (For comparison, the recent film “Hail, Caesar!” was also set in the same McCarthy-Hollywood context, and was quite profitable.) Still waiting for valid evidence for your assertion that “Hollywood can’t make enough of” movies about McCarthyism, or in general that “Hollywood regularly churns out movies with a social or political agenda, even when there’s no chance the movies will make money”. Major filmmakers are really quite a bit more averse to losing money than you seem to believe, although they do acknowledge that it’s bound to happen sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/29 "2017-10-31T02:12:12Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Hollywood is about money, that’s why it promotes secularism. So you think most of the movie going audience is secular to the point that they’ll eat up secular films? Perhaps secular themes are more plausible and easier to write. Almost all SF involving aliens is secular, since meeting good Christians out there is absurd on the face of it. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/30 "2017-10-31T16:55:03Z")
_ **Trumbo? For the Boys? ?The Front? Guilty By Suspicion?** _ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/31 "2017-10-31T17:28:37Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > _ **Trumbo?** _ 2015, nominated for many awards. > [@astorian](#): > > _ **For the Boys?** _ 1991 (! Are you really suggesting that a few films with the same period setting over more than 25 years counts as “regularly churning out” movies on a particular topic?), a comedy-drama musical about USO entertainers during the midcentury wars. Where’s the McCarthyism angle? I haven’t seen the movie but I’m not finding anything about the “Red Scare” in descriptions of it. Lost money at the box office but is described as having “cult status” among aficionados of musicals, biopics and war-era films. > [@astorian](#): > > _ **The Front?** _ 1976 (!!! Okay, now a few films over a **forty** -year period counts as “regularly churning out”? :rolleyes: ), a Woody Allen comedy classic. Made the list of #1 weekend box-office films in 1976. > [@astorian](#): > > _ **Guilty By Suspicion?** _ 1991 (see above), critically acclaimed. I repeat: > [@Kimstu](#): > > Still waiting for valid evidence for your assertion that “Hollywood can’t make enough of” movies about McCarthyism, or in general that “Hollywood regularly churns out movies with a social or political agenda, even when there’s no chance the movies will make money”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/32 "2017-10-31T17:52:27Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > When Jim Carrey wanted to leave his comic image behind and try to win an Oscar, what movie did he make? _The Truman Show_. ---
**Author:** ![Linden\_Arden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Linden\_Arden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linden_Arden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/33 "2017-11-02T00:05:08Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > This question suffers from being nonsensical. > > Hollywood is not a single entity. Therefore any declaration about it as though it is, is inherently false or at least meaningless. We are constantly told by conservatives that there is a “Hollywood agenda” to legitimize non-traditional values for mainstream America. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/34 "2017-11-07T18:53:44Z")
Look at it this way: when Hollywood stars and directors want to make money (which is often), they make superhero and action movies. But when they want to win Oscars and impress each other, and strike impressive poses, they make left-wing message movies. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/35 "2017-11-07T20:33:08Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Look at it this way: when Hollywood stars and directors want to make money (which is often), they make superhero and action movies. > > But when they want to win Oscars and impress each other, and strike impressive poses, they make left-wing message movies. False dichotomy. Money-making movies often **do** win Oscars and impress the industry, and some of them contain a lot of what you would probably call “left-wing message” (such as the Oscar-winning and money-coining _Zootopia_, for example). And plenty of “superhero and action movies” with no “left-wing message” at all have stunk up the box office like rotten fish. There simply is not a neat binary division between “message-free” money-spinners and money-losing “agenda films”, no matter how much you insist that there is. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/36 "2017-11-08T00:59:13Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But that’s kind of my point: in any such movie, I _agree_ that they’re not trying for the “promotes secularism” goal like **WillFarnaby** said: they’re not shooting for that, it’s not something they try to shoehorn in; as you say, it maybe doesn’t even cross their minds – and neither does the _opposite,_ promoting a religious message. > > If they don’t have to mention whether our hero believes in God, I think they’re glad not to bother, because that’s not why they’re making the film; they’re not usually trying to promote Christianity, and they’re not usually trying to promote secularism. Maybe we have a different view of secularism. I would view art that has no religious purpose as secular art. Hollywood promotes this type of art. I’m not trying to be an asshole but… > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/secular)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! Secular:adjective of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests. not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/37 "2017-11-08T05:16:03Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Maybe we have a different view of secularism. I would view art that has no religious purpose as secular art. Hollywood promotes this type of art. > > I’m not trying to be an asshole but… > > [SECULAR Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/secular) > > Secular:adjective > of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: > secular interests. > not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): So is anything that isn’t actively promoting religion “promoting secularism” as you would put it? That seems fairly misleading to me. When I hear someone say something like “X is promoting secularism”, I don’t think “they don’t particularly care about religious purposes”, I think “they are going out of their way to snub religion”. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/38 "2017-11-08T05:39:13Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/39 "2017-11-10T14:16:05Z")
Do superhero movies sometimes bomb? Sure. But if you ask a studio boss why he green lighted a superhero movie, he’ll tell you, “We thought it would make a ton of money.” And he really did think so. But did anyone in Hollywood think “Lions for Lambs” would be a big hit? Or “Suburbicon”? No! And yet big stars flocked to be in it. Why? To impress other Hollywood insiders. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108/40 "2017-11-29T22:09:03Z")
How is liberal secularism different from the profit motive? That Venn Diagram is practically overlapping. Many early socialists were Christians who rejected capitalism based on traditional norms about the evils of greed, usury, and slavery. Consumerism is capitalism’s baby. Thomas Frank has a good bit in _What’s the Matter with Kansas?_ about American conservatives loving the free market but hating its fruits, and the entertainment industry is one of the more obvious examples. Yes, the culture has gotten more perverted, more violent, more coarse, more spiritually dead, but cons are aiming at the wrong target. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hollywood-more-driven-by-liberal-secularism-or-money-regarding-hannitys-new-film/800108.md?page=3)