# Is homophobia a social evil, and are homophobic persons evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451 "2012-01-05T01:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/1 "2012-01-05T01:38:34Z")
Choose an option from the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/2 "2012-01-05T01:44:39Z")
As opposed to some other kind of evil? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/3 "2012-01-05T01:46:37Z")
Oh, oops. I thought it was asking about _homosexuality_. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/4 "2012-01-05T01:52:19Z")
You sure like these public polls. ---
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/5 "2012-01-05T01:55:59Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > You sure like these public polls. Creating polls is kind of fun. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/6 "2012-01-05T01:57:11Z")
I had to vote “no” because of the “and” clause. I don’t think every last homophobic person is evil. I certainly do think it’s a social evil, and I think very little of people who are homophobic in this day and age, but I’d rather say “ignorant” or “nasty” or “struggling with their own sexuality in a particularly unhelpful way.” ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/7 "2012-01-05T01:57:13Z")
Hmmm … I chose not to participate. My answers to the pieces of the compound would be ‘yes’ and ‘no’, with the caveat that _some_ homophobes are undoubtedly evil, being human, and evil may be more common amongst that group than in the general population. But then those two get combined into one conjunction, so by the rules of logic the answer would have to be ‘no’, which I find misleading. So my vote is, ‘write a better poll question’. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/8 "2012-01-05T01:58:13Z")
> [@SDMBKL](#): > > Creating polls is kind of fun. 😃 It’s the public part you seem enamoured of that caught my eye. ---
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/9 "2012-01-05T02:00:38Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As opposed to some other kind of evil? According to this [website](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/social+evil), it looks like “social evil” means “anything detrimental to a society or its citizens” and then goes on to listing examples and et cetera. I first heard the term “social evil” from a history textbook that was talking about the social evils in 19th century America and organizations that evolved to address those social concerns. I hope that I am using the term correctly in this context. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/10 "2012-01-05T02:01:13Z")
Yeah, I don’t think it makes you _de facto_ evil. Any sort of prejudice certainly doesn’t help your character, but there’s always so many variables to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/11 "2012-01-05T02:21:15Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > . . . I certainly do think it’s a social evil, and I think very little of people who are homophobic in this day and age, but I’d rather say “ignorant” or “nasty” or “struggling with their own sexuality in a particularly unhelpful way.” Exactly. I want to make room for the poor slob who thinks “Ew, two guys kissing! Bleah!” but doesn’t act on those emotions! The guy who is squicked out by gay sex, but still votes for choice in marriage. The guy whose aesthetic is straight-only, but who would never impose his views on others. Such a guy is homophobic…but is far from evil. (Sigh… Yes, I am that guy.) ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/12 "2012-01-05T02:28:45Z")
I said maybe becuse some people are just ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/13 "2012-01-05T02:32:15Z")
This has to win a prize as the worst-thought-out poll ever. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/14 "2012-01-05T02:37:44Z")
Not voting because the way the question is phrased makes it impossible to answer the way I want to. I’d say yes, homophobia is a social evil, but a homophobic person is not necessarily evil. Many homophobic people are just ignorant, stupid, or the product of a homophobic upbringing. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Exactly. I want to make room for the poor slob who thinks “Ew, two guys kissing! Bleah!” but doesn’t act on those emotions! The guy who is squicked out by gay sex, but still votes for choice in marriage. The guy whose aesthetic is straight-only, but who would never impose his views on others. Such a guy is homophobic…but is far from evil. I’d say he’s not even homophobic. As long as this guy doesn’t have a problem with gay _people_, he’s not homophobic. He’s entitled to his own opinion about how hot/gross gay _sex_ is, as long as he’s not a jerk about it. ---
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/15 "2012-01-05T03:02:31Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > This has to win a prize as the worst-thought-out poll ever. I am flattered. Based on the responses I got from “Are there evil people?”, I knew that this kind of question would be tricky. This question is actually composed of two separate questions, and put them together in one, can cause a lot of confusion. Call me a “troll”, but I find people’s responses to the question a lot more amusing than the content of the responses. 😃 It’s interesting to see that some people would see no difference between those two questions and vote “Yes” on both, and some people (who have posted in this thread) do see an obvious difference and point it out. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/16 "2012-01-05T03:23:57Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > I’d say he’s not even homophobic. As long as this guy doesn’t have a problem with gay _people_, he’s not homophobic. He’s entitled to his own opinion about how hot/gross gay _sex_ is, as long as he’s not a jerk about it. Disagree pretty strongly here. It’s not like this attitude came as a part of a natural dislike for it, then way some people are super grossed out at eating their greens or something. I mean I suppose it might have been, but there’s too much cultural background noise suggesting that gay sex is gross (or at least less valid than straight sex) to ignore that side of things. It’s homophobic. That said, homophobia in itself is of course a bad thing. Evil is kind of a loaded term and not really useful in this context since the truth is we’re all a little homophobic (thanks, culture) in some ways. Note that having a homophobic thought here or there due to enculturation is not the same as being an outright bigot. Once we start with the premise that only outright homophobes have any kind of homophobic notions, we let people get away with all sorts of little things that are harmful to GLBT as a whole, but that the person expressing them probably isn’t even aware of. Outright bigotry is undoubtedly morally negative. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/17 "2012-01-05T03:42:49Z")
I said no, particuarly because the term homophobia is a loaded one that started with “hating gays” and now is “not being absolutely 100% pro-gay in everything”. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/18 "2012-01-05T03:44:24Z")
I voted “yes” but I’d have much preferred a more nuanced set of options. How does the person act (or not act) on their “homophobia”? Is it based on ignorance due to life circumstances they have little control over, or is it a willful refusal to understand the nature of other human beings? The answers to those questions could quite possibly change my response to the poll. Still, would people be tempted to vote anything but “yes” if the phenomenon under discussion was racism rather than homophobia? I doubt it, and bigotry is bigotry, whether it is based on skin color, sexual orientation, or any other fundamental aspect of being human. ---
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/19 "2012-01-05T03:49:46Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Disagree pretty strongly here. It’s not like this attitude came as a part of a natural dislike for it, then way some people are super grossed out at eating their greens or something. I mean I suppose it might have been, but there’s too much cultural background noise suggesting that gay sex is gross (or at least less valid than straight sex) to ignore that side of things. It’s homophobic. > > That said, homophobia in itself is of course a bad thing. Evil is kind of a loaded term and not really useful in this context since the truth is we’re all a little homophobic (thanks, culture) in some ways. Note that having a homophobic thought here or there due to enculturation is not the same as being an outright bigot. Once we start with the premise that only outright homophobes have any kind of homophobic notions, we let people get away with all sorts of little things that are harmful to GLBT as a whole, but that the person expressing them probably isn’t even aware of. > > Outright bigotry is undoubtedly morally negative. I appreciate your contribution. Your contribution, I find, is very thought-provoking. Out of curiosity, would you consider a person – who writes anti-gay sentiments in his or her diary but never shares them with anyone because he or she fears that he or she will be labelled a “bigot” – would you consider that kind of person be “homophobic”? Can you specify what qualifies as a homophobic reaction? Let’s say we have an imaginary case: George and his mother. The mother asks George about the future, like if he’s going to get married or not. George replies that he shall remain single. The claim sends a signal to the mother, who then replies that she does not want her son to remain single forever or become gay. George, however, never has questioned his sexuality, for he’s a super geeky guy and cares about computer and software than about relationships and stuff. So, he remains silent on the issue. If George feels disgust for the gay lifestyle because he knows that his mother will disapprove of it, then is that homophobic or not? ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/20 "2012-01-05T04:15:42Z")
> [@SDMBKL](#): > > Can you specify what qualifies as a homophobic reaction? Anything that begins with the assumption that heterosexuality is superior or “normal” and homosexuality is inferior, wrong, or other. > [@](#): > > Let’s say we have an imaginary case: George and his mother. The mother asks George about the future, like if he’s going to get married or not. George replies that he shall remain single. The claim sends a signal to the mother, who then replies that she does not want her son to remain single forever or become gay. George, however, never has questioned his sexuality, for he’s a super geeky guy and cares about computer and software than about relationships and stuff. So, he remains silent on the issue. If George feels disgust for the gay lifestyle because he knows that his mother will disapprove of it, then is that homophobic or not? I don’t understand why this detailed scenario is necessary. George feeling disgust for gays is homophobic. It’s more benign than if he was actively trying to oppress gay people, or what not, but it’s still a homophobic thought process. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451.md?page=2)