# Is homophobia a social evil, and are homophobic persons evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451 "2012-01-05T01:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Catfood\_Purrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Catfood\_Purrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catfood_Purrito)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/21 "2012-01-05T04:19:24Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Oh, oops. I thought it was asking about _homosexuality_. Me too. I don’t think homophobes are necessarily evil. “Maybe” probably would have been my answer if I’d actually read the question. It depends on why they are homophobic, and if and how it’s expressed. I would have answered the same way for racism, actually. Both are bad things, and I would avoid interacting with those sorts of people as much as possible, but if they’re not actively hurting people, they’re not evil, just jerks. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/22 "2012-01-05T04:39:34Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Disagree pretty strongly here. It’s not like this attitude came as a part of a natural dislike for it, then way some people are super grossed out at eating their greens or something. I mean I suppose it might have been, but there’s too much cultural background noise suggesting that gay sex is gross (or at least less valid than straight sex) to ignore that side of things. It’s homophobic. While I’d say someone who _dwells_ on thoughts of how disgusting s/he finds gay sex probably has issues, I see no reason to doubt that there are straight people who feel that gay sex is icky only in the “I am really, really not into that” sense. **Trinopus** ’s example was a guy “whose aesthetic is straight-only”, which I read as a person who finds only heterosexual behavior to be attractive or arousing. Well, that’s his right. None of us have much control over what turns us on. I mean, I believe straight people when they tell me it’s not a choice! 😉 This hypothetical straight guy isn’t required to think it’s hot when two guys kiss in order to avoid being considered homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/23 "2012-01-05T04:41:24Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > While I’d say someone who _dwells_ on thoughts of how disgusting s/he finds gay sex probably has issues, I see no reason to doubt that there are straight people who feel that gay sex is icky only in the “I am really, really not into that” sense. **Trinopus** ’s example was a guy “whose aesthetic is straight-only”, which I read as a person who finds only heterosexual behavior to be attractive or arousing. Well, that’s his right. None of us have much control over what turns us on. I mean, I believe straight people when they tell me it’s not a choice! 😉 This hypothetical straight guy isn’t required to think it’s hot when two guys kiss in order to avoid being considered homophobic. Do you seriously not see the difference between “that doesn’t turn me on” and “that’s gross”? Because uh, one is neutral and the other is not. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/24 "2012-01-05T04:44:24Z")
I put maybe because a lot of people here and elsewhere define homophobia not merely those who hate/attack/are illogically afraid of homosexuals but anyone who has moral reservations about homosexual activities. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/25 "2012-01-05T04:44:25Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I said no, particuarly because the term homophobia is a loaded one that started with “hating gays” and now is “not being absolutely 100% pro-gay in everything”. Is there any possible legit excuse for not being “pro-gay on everything”? ---
**Author:** ![SDMBKL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdmbkl/32/7297_2.png) [@SDMBKL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDMBKL)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/26 "2012-01-05T04:46:02Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Anything that begins with the assumption that heterosexuality is superior or “normal” and homosexuality is inferior, wrong, or other. > > I don’t understand why this detailed scenario is necessary. George feeling disgust for gays is homophobic. It’s more benign than if he was actively trying to oppress gay people, or what not, but it’s still a homophobic thought process. I am also wondering about whether you would think that homophobic men (that is, men who have sex with men but refuse to acknowledge any homosexual identity, as you may have read in the news) deserve sympathy or shame. Should they be cured and accept for who they are rather than live a life of self-loathing? Why do you think they behave so hypocritically (i.e. anti-gay politician or important public figure caught in a gay sex scandal)? Are these people really “gay” or just acting “gay”? ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/27 "2012-01-05T04:52:18Z")
> [@SDMBKL](#): > > I am also wondering about whether you would think that homophobic men (that is, men who have sex with men but refuse to acknowledge any homosexual identity, as you may have read in the news) deserve sympathy or shame. Should they be cured and accept for who they are rather than live a life of self-loathing? Why do you think they behave so hypocritically (i.e. anti-gay politician or important public figure caught in a gay sex scandal)? Are these people really “gay” or just acting “gay”? look up “internalized homophobia” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/28 "2012-01-05T04:58:40Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Is there any possible legit excuse for not being “pro-gay on everything”? “Look, I sympathize with your politics. But using all male connectors for electrical & plumbing installation simply _does not work!_ It leaks. A _lot_.” ---
**Author:** ![heathen\_earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/13edae/32.png) [@heathen\_earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen_earthling)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/29 "2012-01-05T05:18:06Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I said no, particuarly because the term homophobia is a loaded one that started with “hating gays” and now is “not being absolutely 100% pro-gay in everything”. Why doesn’t it mean “fearing gays”? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/30 "2012-01-05T06:01:02Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > Is there any possible legit excuse for not being “pro-gay on everything”? Sure, the same legit excuses for not 100% pro-anything else. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > “Look, I sympathize with your politics. But using all male connectors for electrical & plumbing installation simply _does not work!_ It leaks. A _lot_.” I mean, there’s a limit for everything. > [@heathen\_earthling](#): > > Why doesn’t it mean “fearing gays”? That linguistic ship has sailed. My real beef is that any discussion with th word “homophobia” already sets one side as evil. It’s like asking “are you a nigger-lover?”. You may actually be married to a black person son the answer is technically yes, but the phrase nigger-lover means more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/31 "2012-01-05T06:05:32Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Do you seriously not see the difference between “that doesn’t turn me on” and “that’s gross”? > > Because uh, one is neutral and the other is not. So what? I see the difference between being neutral about something and actually disliking it, but I don’t share your opinion that it’s bigoted to be turned off by sexual behavior that is not to one’s personal tastes. Everyone’s turned off by _something_. You brought up the food comparison earlier and claimed that being grossed out by certain sexual behavior is different from being grossed out by certain foods, but I see no reason to believe this is universally the case. Sure, someone might consider gay sex to be gross because they’ve been brought up to believe that gay people themselves are disgusting and abnormal, but I am willing to believe that a straight person might consider gay sex to be gross in basically the same way that I consider olives to be gross. I am not merely neutral on the subject of olives, I think they taste nasty. But I have no problem with other people eating olives, I do not consider the eating of olives to be immoral, I do not wish to see olive-eating banned, and I would object to being characterized as a hater or oppressor of olive eaters just because I personally dislike eating olives. Everyone is entitled to their own personal preferences, the important thing is not being a jerk about it. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/32 "2012-01-05T06:16:24Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I had to vote “no” because of the “and” clause. I don’t think every last homophobic person is evil. I certainly do think it’s a social evil, and I think very little of people who are homophobic in this day and age, but I’d rather say “ignorant” or “nasty” or “struggling with their own sexuality in a particularly unhelpful way.” Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/33 "2012-01-05T06:54:54Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Sure, the same legit excuses for not 100% pro-anything else. That’s not an answer. In which respects are you anti-gay and why would anyone sane overlook them? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/34 "2012-01-05T07:01:50Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Do you seriously not see the difference between “that doesn’t turn me on” and “that’s gross”? > > Because uh, one is neutral and the other is not. I am very grateful to **Lamia** for the defense, but, alas, I think I agree with you. Being turned off – being grossed out – finding gay love icky and squicky – is, in my mind, a kind of homophobia. But so long as it isn’t acted upon – other than to the degree of looking the other way – so what? It isn’t evil if it doesn’t get expressed at the ballot box. So, yes, I am homophobic (and am direly ashamed of it) but I’m not evil, because my aesthetics are involved, not my morals. My morals are gay-friendly; my voting record easily earns the approval of any GLBT political action committee. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/35 "2012-01-05T07:11:10Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > So what? I see the difference between being neutral about something and actually disliking it, but I don’t share your opinion that it’s bigoted to be turned off by sexual behavior that is not to one’s personal tastes. . . . > > . . . I am willing to believe that a straight person might consider gay sex to be gross in basically the same way that I consider olives to be gross. . . . And now…I agree with you again! I do think the word “homophobia” is appropriate to someone like me. I have that kind of “gross out” reaction. But I don’t act on it… I have known people who were racist in the same way. My papa was one! He never felt comfortable around blacks, but, by God, he fought as hard as he could never to let it show. It was just how his papa had raised him. He voted for Congressman and Senators who supported the Civil Rights movement, and he did his best to teach me the ideals of racial equality. I am homophobic… But I think that I am not a “bigot.” Bigotry entails acting out those feelings. In the same way, my father had racist feelings, but wasn’t a bigot. This is why my answer on the poll was conflicted. I think one can be homophobic, without being evil. (But, golly, I really love olives! If you don’t want 'em, can I have yours?) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrassyPhrase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea666f/32.png) [@BrassyPhrase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrassyPhrase)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/36 "2012-01-05T07:22:43Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > Hmmm … I chose not to participate. My answers to the pieces of the compound would be ‘yes’ and ‘no’, with the caveat that _some_ homophobes are undoubtedly evil, being human, and evil may be more common amongst that group than in the general population. But then those two get combined into one conjunction, so by the rules of logic the answer would have to be ‘no’, which I find misleading. So my vote is, ‘write a better poll question’. I hate to say “Me too” on the Dope. But me too. It’s a poorly written question. ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/37 "2012-01-05T09:53:48Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > So what? I see the difference between being neutral about something and actually disliking it, but I don’t share your opinion that it’s bigoted to be turned off by sexual behavior that is not to one’s personal tastes. Everyone’s turned off by _something_. You brought up the food comparison earlier and claimed that being grossed out by certain sexual behavior is different from being grossed out by certain foods, but I see no reason to believe this is universally the case. > > Sure, someone might consider gay sex to be gross because they’ve been brought up to believe that gay people themselves are disgusting and abnormal, but I am willing to believe that a straight person might consider gay sex to be gross in basically the same way that I consider olives to be gross. I am not merely neutral on the subject of olives, I think they taste nasty. But I have no problem with other people eating olives, I do not consider the eating of olives to be immoral, I do not wish to see olive-eating banned, and I would object to being characterized as a hater or oppressor of olive eaters just because I personally dislike eating olives. Everyone is entitled to their own personal preferences, the important thing is not being a jerk about it. Yeah, uh-huh. When olive eaters face systematic prejudice that leaves a baseline cutlural assumption that not eating olives is the norm, and eating olives is somehow less then you’ll have a point. As I said, maybe it’s possible that a person has a visceral negative reaction to gay sex in the same way one does to a food. But this is not happening in a vaccuum. That person is in a culture that defines gay sex as less. That is slowly changing, thankfully, but it’s not there yet. You cannot divorce people’s attitudes from the cultural context they live in. Beating this drum, at the most generous, you are being willfully obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/38 "2012-01-05T09:56:47Z")
Additionally, **Lamia** , when you decide to stop being obtuse you’ll note in my original post that I said that there was a difference between being homophobic and being outright bigoted. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/39 "2012-01-05T10:31:45Z")
Well if homophobic people are _evil_, then obviously we need a solution for dealing with them in order to protect society. Perhaps we could round them all up into some type of… camps, yes, camps, and then we could sew badges onto their clothes so they can be clearly identified in public. I think we’re finally on to something! ---
**Author:** ![Hogfather65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hogfather65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogfather65)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/40 "2012-01-05T11:11:08Z")
loaded question indead. Am I Pro-Gay - No… Does that make me Homophobic? No… Am I anti Gay - No… Does that make me Pro Gay? No… Do I care - No… As long as it does not interfear with me why should I… I have been asked out by a guy and said no - its not my thing. But, I have also said no to a few women and they are my thing but not at the time. So what does that make me? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451.md?page=3)