# Is homophobia a social evil, and are homophobic persons evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451 "2012-01-05T01:38:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/41 "2012-01-05T12:46:54Z")
I voted “yes”, and I’m not going to cop-out with any “…but…” qualifications. The way I see it is simple - if you’re not even a little bit _actively_ pro-gay, you’re part of the problem and (a little) evil. It’s possible to be a little evil and not be a total waste of skin, in my book. Your net moral worth may be overwhelmingly positive - you may be a _very_ good person. But you carry a little bit of evil too. Good and evil don’t mix like paint. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/42 "2012-01-05T15:52:45Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > That’s not an answer. In which respects are you anti-gay and why would anyone sane overlook them? In all respects were people assume insanity is the only possible answer (other than evil). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/43 "2012-01-05T17:29:20Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > And now…I agree with you again! I do think the word “homophobia” is appropriate to someone like me. I have that kind of “gross out” reaction. But I don’t act on it… > > I have known people who were racist in the same way. My papa was one! He never felt comfortable around blacks, but, by God, he fought as hard as he could never to let it show. It was just how his papa had raised him. He voted for Congressman and Senators who supported the Civil Rights movement, and he did his best to teach me the ideals of racial equality. Well, if you think homophobia is the right term for your attitude then I’m not really in a position to disagree with you. But I see a large difference between being uncomfortable with _people_ and being grossed out by what they might do in the bedroom. I don’t consider it homophobic for a straight person to have an aversion to, say, watching gay porn. Now, if your feeling that gay sex is kind of gross bleeds over into how you feel about gay people in everyday non-sexual situations and causes you to feel uncomfortable around them then I’d agree this is homophobic, although if you keep these feelings under control then at least it’s not hurting anyone else. > [@](#): > > (But, golly, I really love olives! If you don’t want 'em, can I have yours?) 🙂 You are welcome to them! > [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > As I said, maybe it’s possible that a person has a visceral negative reaction to gay sex in the same way one does to a food. That’s not actually what you said. > [@](#): > > Beating this drum, at the most generous, you are being willfully obtuse. It isn’t my fault if you can’t express yourself clearly. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/44 "2012-01-05T17:50:33Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > Do you seriously not see the difference between “that doesn’t turn me on” and “that’s gross”? > > Because uh, one is neutral and the other is not. A lot of gay people are grossed out by heterosexual sex. Columnist Dan Savage once referred to female genitalia as looking like someone threw a canned ham off a tall building. Are these people heterophobic? ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/45 "2012-01-05T18:19:47Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Oh, oops. I thought it was asking about _homosexuality_. Ooops - me too! Sorry - skewed the poll a bit. I’d have to be more undecided. Someone can be homophobic and not do anything overt about it, other than saying hateful things within their social group. Its certainly a shitty attitude, but I don’t know that I’d call it evil. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/46 "2012-01-05T19:02:31Z")
Evil, no. Ignorant, yes. However, could we get a definition for homophia? Does a homophobic hate gay people? Can a homophobic be creeped out by gay people but support their civil rights? ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/47 "2012-01-05T19:35:32Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > In all respects were people assume insanity is the only possible answer (other than evil). That’s not an answer. Why are you avoiding answering? ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/48 "2012-01-05T19:39:49Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Well if homophobic people are _evil_, then obviously we need a solution for dealing with them in order to protect society. Perhaps we could round them all up into some type of… camps, yes, camps, and then we could sew badges onto their clothes so they can be clearly identified in public. I think we’re finally on to something! Yes. Gay people who have the temerity to think we deserve the same rights as straight people are the equivalent of Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/49 "2012-01-05T19:44:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > A lot of gay people are grossed out by heterosexual sex. **Columnist Dan Savage once referred to female genitalia as looking like someone threw a canned ham off a tall building.** > > Are these people heterophobic? The bolded quote is misogynist, not heterophobic, and as a woman I’m sort of irritated that you’re trying to imply otherwise. But hey thanks for repeating it and giving me another reason to hate Dan Savage. There is no meaningful comparison that can be made between homophobia and “heterophobia”, as I am sure you know, so I’m not sure what your point is here. [QUOTE=Rigamarole] Well if homophobic people are evil, then obviously we need a solution for dealing with them in order to protect society. Perhaps we could round them all up into some type of… camps, yes, camps, and then we could sew badges onto their clothes so they can be clearly identified in public. I think we’re finally on to something! [/QUOTE] What the fuck are you on about? ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/50 "2012-01-05T20:34:26Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Not voting because the way the question is phrased makes it impossible to answer the way I want to. I’d say yes, homophobia is a social evil, but a homophobic person is not necessarily evil. I’m with Lamia. ---
**Author:** ![AqualungBats5th](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@AqualungBats5th](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AqualungBats5th)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/51 "2012-01-05T20:54:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > A lot of gay people are grossed out by heterosexual sex. Columnist Dan Savage once referred to female genitalia as looking like someone threw a canned ham off a tall building. > > Are these people heterophobic? As has already been pointed out, this is a heaping dose of misogyny. Tell me something, how exactly is female genitalia itself equivalent to “straight sex”? I mean, otherwise it’s perplexing why you would specifically choose that as your example. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/52 "2012-01-05T21:17:05Z")
> [@AqualungBats5th](#): > > As has already been pointed out, this is a heaping dose of misogyny. Or maybe it’s just the natural reaction of someone who isn’t sexually attracted to women. Why do we have to read misogyny into this? Vaginas _are_ sort of weird, from an objective standpoint. In fact, sex in and of itself is pretty gross if you really think about all that swapping of bodily fluids. Don’t you remember being a kid and how weird it was? Grownups do WHAT? What on earth for?!!! Nobody is morally obligated to find gay sex appealing. They are morally obligated to support the civil rights of all humans regardless of sexual orientation. Of course homophobia is a social evil. I don’t really believe in evil people, though. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/53 "2012-01-05T23:23:56Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > That’s not an answer. Why are you avoiding answering? Because experience at the SDMB shows me that trying to answer questions whose only answers are a) \*Agree with the questioner \*or b) \*Insanity and/or Evil \*is a waste of time. Besides, gay rights have been discussed to death and you can find my opinion with a nice little search. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/54 "2012-01-05T23:27:45Z")
In fairness to Dan Savage, the “canned ham” comment was made years ago (like 15-20) when his column was more satirical than it is now. Looking at the original context it’s also clear that, while he certainly doesn’t find women’s genitals to be appealing, he also considered his squeamishness to be rather silly. I found the [full quote on Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=iWmsV0n0mNYC&pg=PA129&lpg=PA129&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false): “What I don’t know about vaginas could fill, well, several thousand vaginas probably. Until I got this job, I was one of those gynophobic cocksuckers who went all woozy at the sight of a woman’s genitals. They look like something dropped from a great height. A canned ham dropped from the 23rd floor of the Empire State Building, I don’t know.” ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/55 "2012-01-06T00:03:39Z")
> [@Myrnalene](#): > > What the fuck are you on about? Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/56 "2012-01-06T00:30:31Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Because experience at the SDMB shows me that trying to answer questions whose only answers are a) \*Agree with the questioner \*or b) \*Insanity and/or Evil \*is a waste of time. > Besides, gay rights have been discussed to death and you can find my opinion with a nice little search. I don’t even have to search to know that you apparently are not “100% pro-gay in everything” and I’m having a hard time avoiding the implication that some people go too far in being “pro-gay”. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/57 "2012-01-06T00:49:19Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > Nobody is morally obligated to find gay sex appealing. Nobody has made the argument that anyone is obligated. It’s already been pointed out in this thread that there is a difference between finding something appealing and not acting like a grossed out seven year old horrified at the thought of boy / girl cooties. Can we please stop acting like we don’t know the difference? The Dan Savage quote is really ugly and I don’t get from it that he had (at the time of writing) backpedaled from his view point at all (he says “they look..”, not “I thought they looked…”). Comparing vaginas to smashed canned ham (with the implication that they are repulsive) is sexist. Being grossed out by the thought of two dudes making out or whatever is homophobic. Being grossed out by the idea of two women making out is also homophobic (I notice none of the straight men have mentioned this at all, because LGBT women totally don’t exist or something). There are scales to this stuff, people. Not every homophobic (or sexist) thought or impulse or random comment is THE WORST THING EVER, but it’s still a problem. There’s two things that have to be acknowledged here: 1) People who are nice and good and all those qualities that we like to think of ourselves as having can still fuck up and 2) just because you _are_ nice and good doesn’t mean you don’t still have to examine your own mind and try to change for the better when you HAVE fucked up. That’s why this poll is sorta dumb, IMO. Words like “evil” just make everybody shut down. Of course, there are total assholes (why, some may even be present in this very thread!) who are total unrepentant homophobes and who are totally uninterested in examining their behavior or changing one bit. I personally find those people pretty useless but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/58 "2012-01-06T00:50:06Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#): > > I don’t even have to search to know that you apparently are not “100% pro-gay in everything” and I’m having a hard time avoiding the implication that some people go too far in being “pro-gay”. Don’t avoid it, it’s true, however I don’t want this to turn into yet another gay rights debate. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/59 "2012-01-06T00:54:45Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Don’t avoid it, it’s true. In your eyes it’s going too far for gay people to expect to be treated as equals. Okay, that’s all I wanted to know. ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451/60 "2012-01-06T01:20:56Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I don’t want this to turn into yet another gay rights debate. I understand - who would expect people to start discussing treating gays like actual human beings in a thread about homophobia? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-homophobia-a-social-evil-and-are-homophobic-persons-evil/608451.md?page=4)