# Is Hornblower or Aubrey-Maturin More Historically Accurate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303 "2014-08-11T14:56:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/1 "2014-08-11T14:56:59Z")
So, I’ve read the whole Hornblower series by C.S. Forester and I’ve started reading the Aubrey-Maturin series by Patrick O’Brian. One thing that struck me about these series is the different ways the authors portrayed the service. The biggest thing that stuck out to me is Forester, on several occasions, made it sound as though a woman on board a navy vessel was practically unheard of. Having one in a passenger-type capacity was rare enough, and a woman that was part of the crew in at least tertiary aspect, unthinkable. O’Brian on the other hand makes nothing of it. The gunner may have his wife aboard for the whole journey. She helps look after the powder boys and washes clothing. No biggie. Which one is more historically accurate? And is one more historically accurate across all aspects than the other, or are both good at some aspects and bad at others? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/2 "2014-08-11T16:51:19Z")
It was against regulations for a woman to be on board ship in the Napoleonic War era Royal Navy. However, it wasn’t uncommon for warrant officers to bring their wives and kids onboard. The captain is God onboard his ship, afterall. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/3 "2014-08-11T19:55:31Z")
Forester researched his stuff meticulously (he writes about reading all those issues of the _Naval Gazette_, for instance, and he wrote a history of the WAr of 1812), but I’ve learned recently that he was apparently willing to stretch points for the sake of the story. His writing about marine salvage and underwater explosives in _Hornblower and the Atropos_, for instance, seems to be ahead of its time. As for women on board the ships while at sea, I don’t know what the facts are, but haven’t heard of it before, even in the works of other sea story-writers (aside from O’Brian). Whaler captains certainly sometimes brought their wives along, and I suspect merchantmen might have. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/4 "2014-08-11T20:21:37Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Forester researched his stuff meticulously (he writes about reading all those issues of the _Naval Gazette_, for instance, and he wrote a history of the WAr of 1812), but I’ve learned recently that he was apparently willing to stretch points for the sake of the story. His writing about marine salvage and underwater explosives in _Hornblower and the Atropos_, for instance, seems to be ahead of its time. I remember that scene - but I would have no idea if his description of underwater salvage was accurate for the era or not. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/5 "2014-08-11T20:29:29Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I remember that scene - but I would have no idea if his description of underwater salvage was accurate for the era or not. 😃 Did they have pearl divers with explosives, are am I thinking of POB? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/6 "2014-08-11T20:35:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did they have pearl divers with explosives, are am I thinking of POB? They imported an engineer from the East India Company who was an underwater salvage expert. He had working for him some Indian divers able to make very deep dives; they used explosives contained in kegs to blow up bits of the wreck. The explosives were set off by “flying fuses” - that is, fuses contained in the sealed kegs that were waterproofed _after_ they were lit and sealed - adding a certian element of nasty danger to using them. His expertise was a major plot point because: He gets shot in a duel and appears likely to die - yet he’s the only guy in the area who (a) speaks the language of the divers, and (b) knows how to conduct salvage operations I have no idea whether this portrayal is accurate for the time or not … ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/7 "2014-08-11T20:55:16Z")
We had a discussion not that long ago on this Board about underwater explosives and the like, so I looked up early attempts at underwater salvage. Unless the guys Forester described were lone geniuses, there was nothing like that going on during the Napoleonic wars – it all came a bit later. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/8 "2014-08-11T20:59:32Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > We had a discussion not that long ago on this Board about underwater explosives and the like, so I looked up early attempts at underwater salvage. Unless the guys Forester described were lone geniuses, there was nothing like that going on during the Napoleonic wars – it all came a bit later. That sounds like some awesomely esoteric information - if there’s already a dope thread on this, I’d love to see it. I like this sort of thing! ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/9 "2014-08-11T21:01:33Z")
Based on absolutely nothing more than the fact that I’ve met a fair variety of people before, I just kind of assumed that there were some Hornblower-type captains, who were rigidly by the book and to whom the idea of a woman on board was shocking in the extreme; and also some Aubrey-type captains, who were a lot more easygoing and were willing to smile and wink at the occasional bit of rule-breaking. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/10 "2014-08-11T21:14:44Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > We had a discussion not that long ago on this Board about underwater explosives and the like, so I looked up early attempts at underwater salvage. Unless the guys Forester described were lone geniuses, there was nothing like that going on during the Napoleonic wars – it all came a bit later. Dr. Maturin had his diving bell. Have you seen his little cock? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/11 "2014-08-11T21:30:53Z")
if you like Hornblower there was an old time radio drama The Adventures of Horatio Hornblower (46 episodes, 1952 - 1953) that was really well done. i don’t know the books to compare to that. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/12 "2014-08-11T21:47:49Z")
Here’s an [earlier general discussion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=701675&highlight=Hornblower) on Aubrey v. Hornblower. Also, this [made-for-TV Hornblower series](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8N9VO/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1) is outstanding. The first four of this eight-disc collection are particularly good. And $24.95 for the whole shebang is an excellent price. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/13 "2014-08-12T00:48:00Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > if you like Hornblower there was an old time radio drama The Adventures of Horatio Hornblower (46 episodes, 1952 - 1953) that was really well done. > > i don’t know the books to compare to that. I didn’t know about this! Thank’ee! I just went out and sent off for a copy of these – OTRCAT says there are 52 episodes? – and I’ll post a review in due course. Hard a lee and watch for squalls! (Be that a mermaid?) ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/14 "2014-08-12T01:13:16Z")
The book I **[referenced](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17201419&postcount=81)** in a previous thread by Dr. Nicholas Rodger, which is pretty definitive, makes it clear there were women aboard — not in great numbers, and not as sailors — as wives of captains and men, and as unofficial helpers. Even at Trafalgar. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/15 "2014-08-12T01:50:27Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > Even at Trafalgar. IIRC Keegan mentions them, too, in _Intelligence in War._ ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/16 "2014-08-12T19:58:33Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Here’s an [earlier general discussion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=701675&highlight=Hornblower) on Aubrey v. Hornblower. > > Also, this [made-for-TV Hornblower series](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8N9VO/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1) is outstanding. The first four of this eight-disc collection are particularly good. And $24.95 for the whole shebang is an excellent price. Oh yes, I have that series. Despite the changes they made, I like it a lot. They left the pineapple scene in after all. You can never forget the pineapple scene. I’m terrible at imagining what other people’s characters look like so my mental image of young Hornblower and Bush is defined by the actors from that series. I’d always wondered how Forester learned everything he did and I suppose reading the actual Gazette would do it, wouldn’t it? I think I’ll actually be looking into the book **Claverhouse** links to. Then I can make my own determination on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/17 "2014-08-12T21:07:39Z")
Whilst checking on **[Dr. Rodger](http://www.all-souls.ox.ac.uk/people.php?personid=129)**, I found this list of other works on the naval era. **[The Joyful Molly](http://joyfulmolly.wordpress.com/resources/books/)**. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/18 "2014-08-12T21:15:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Also, this [made-for-TV Hornblower series](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004G8N9VO/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1) is outstanding. The first four of this eight-disc collection are particularly good. And $24.95 for the whole shebang is an excellent price. And, Ioan Gruffudd’s TV series ends right before Gregory Peck’s movie begins. So you can watch them in sequence. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/19 "2014-08-13T12:45:01Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > And, Ioan Gruffudd’s TV series ends right before Gregory Peck’s movie begins. So you can watch them in sequence. HA-humm. ---
**Author:** ![misling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@misling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misling)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303/20 "2014-08-13T19:04:36Z")
I don’t know the answer to your question, but as another data point, the Jane Austin books have officers delivering each others’ wives to the duty station where their fellow officers are currently staying. As a friendly service to the spouses. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-hornblower-or-aubrey-maturin-more-historically-accurate/695303.md?page=2)