# Is horse racing cruel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262 "2006-05-26T00:31:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/1 "2006-05-26T00:31:07Z")
When people enter sports like boxing or auto racing, they are willingly taking a risk. But a horse has no choice in the matter. As seen with Barbaro, they can get injured or worse. I don’t think they love getting whipped either. Would you? ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/2 "2006-05-26T00:40:38Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > When people enter sports like boxing or auto racing, they are willingly taking a risk. But a horse has no choice in the matter. As seen with Barbaro, they can get injured or worse. I don’t think they love getting whipped either. Would you? These horses also love to run fast. Just love it. And they get exquisitely wonderful treatment. There are probably millions of human beings who would benefit greatly by being treated as well as most racehorses. Yes, sometimes they are injured. But they are not hunted down as prey as their ancestors were, torn to pieces by wolves or whatever it is that hunts horses. If they are injured beyond recovery they die quickly and as painlessly as people can manage. After their racing days are over, the most fortunate get to spend the rest of their days making babies and grazing in green pastures. ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/3 "2006-05-26T01:09:45Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > After their racing days are over, the most fortunate get to spend the rest of their days making babies and grazing in green pastures. Problem is, most horses aren’t that fortunate… [http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet\_display.asp?ID=65](http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=65) ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/4 "2006-05-26T01:35:40Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > Problem is, most horses aren’t that fortunate… > > [http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet\_display.asp?ID=65](http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=65) First off, the article says no such thing. Secondly, that’s a classic example of propaganda by misleading references. I don’t think there’s a single outright lie in there, but they conflate every misfortunate thing that could happen to a horse to indict the racing business. Take this for example: > [@](#): > > One study on injuries at racetracks concluded that one horse in every 22 races suffered an injury that prevented him or her from finishing a race, while another estimates that 800 thoroughbreds die a year in North America because of injuries. Now, it could be badly written, or they could be obfuscating the fact that those fatal injuries aren’t on the track, or even involving racehorses! But that’s PETA for you. If they had their way, they’d abolish all animal ownership and we’d have to be racing Daves or something. ---
**Author:** ![Jebus\_H.Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Jebus\_H.Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebus_H.Christ)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/5 "2006-05-26T01:44:37Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > These horses also love to run fast. Just love it. I love to run fast, too. But I sure don’t love the feeling of running fast at the end of a race. Lacate acid can create intense pain. Would these horse continue to run fast at the end of the race when that pain kicks in if they weren’t getting hit a riding crop? I honestly don’t know. Anyone know if horses would run like they do without being beat? ---
**Author:** ![DaveRaver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daveraver/32/1078_2.png) [@DaveRaver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaveRaver)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/6 "2006-05-26T02:12:13Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > First off, the article says no such thing. Yes it does: under the heading: “Even the Winners Lose”: “Few racehorses are retired to pastures for pampering and visits from caring individuals or are glamorized in movies.” ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/7 "2006-05-26T02:24:52Z")
> [@DaveRaver](#): > > “Few racehorses are retired to pastures for pampering and visits from caring individuals or are glamorized in movies.” So? What’s a matter with the glue factory? They are assets, might as well get all that you can out of them. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/8 "2006-05-26T02:34:27Z")
> [@Jebus H. Christ](#): > > I love to run fast, too. But I sure don’t love the feeling of running fast at the end of a race. Lacate acid can create intense pain. > > Would these horse continue to run fast at the end of the race when that pain kicks in if they weren’t getting hit a riding crop? I honestly don’t know. Anyone know if horses would run like they do without being beat? Yes, they would. I have owned four horses. Two of them were go-getters who had to be held back or they would have gone full-tilt until they dropped (and I don’t think I’m exaggerating). One of the two apparently would have preferred almost anything to having another horse pass her. (Both of these go-getters were quarter horses. My other horses also didn’t mind running but were a little more laid-back about it. One Arabian, and kind of old, the other a quarter horse-Appaloosa mix.) I did not beat my horses. Although I did find them to be rather more well-behaved if I happened to have a crop in my hand. Not necessarily faster–just more generally receptive to whatever I wanted them to do. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/9 "2006-05-26T02:51:05Z")
For one thing, a riding crop is a small piece of leather attatched to a short stick. They don’t have spikes on them or anything. You aren’t going to hurt a 1200lb horse by slapping one of these off his massive rump for the last few seconds of a race. It may not be the very most pleasant thing in the world, but it is a relatively mild motivator. The bit in the horse’s mouth is more likely to cause damage. Race horses are some of the best kept animals in the world. They are delicate creatures and large investments, and their owners’ want to protect them. For the most part, they are fed the best food, receive the best medical care, and are in excellent physical codition. The one thing that does call for concern is the same thing that happens in many sports–the horses can get injected with whatever pain killers it takes to make a horse ignore an injury, therefor making it worse. This is illegal and risky, but I’m sure it does happen. If you’re concerned about animal cruelty, there are much better examples than horseracing. Those horses are born to run, and the ones that don’t love to run don’t stay in racing very long. They may be treated like livestock after their racing carreers, or they may become dressage/ hunter-jumper horses or pets or retire to lush green pastures. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/10 "2006-05-26T03:01:48Z")
Yeah, it’s kind of cruel, and I should know. I’ve been around horses my whole like, taught riding, and directed stables at summer camps and a dude ranch. When my wife an I had the farm, before we had kids we would buy horses at Eyler’s auction in Thurmont Maryland. We’d compete against the meat buyers. The idea was we’d buy horses in bad shape, rehabilitate them, train them and sell them at a profit to good homes. We **did** do some of that, but we never made any money doing it, and it was a bit heartbreaking. A **lot** of the horses that go through are thoroughbreds from the track. I hesitate to say **most** , but an awful large percentage of former race horses have serious leg problems, and are permanently lame, or close to it. Horses start to race at 2 and three years old, and at these times there bones are still soft and their joints and tendons are not completely grown or at full strength. Horses carry a tremendous amount of weight on very narrow legs, and these legs take huge impact forces when racing. Their legs don’t get the blood flow they need to heal. It costs a lot to train, keep and race them and the owners and trainers are under pressure to make the animal pay for itself. The horses are usually raced even if they are suffering from injuries, and they sometimes perform some pretty nasty procedures on the horse to keep them running. They’ll put acid or use heat on different points of the horse’s leg to harden tendon and kill nerve cells so the horse won’t be able to feel the pain. They give the horse pain killers so it doesn’t know it’s hurting itself. They give other medicine which helps with respiratory issues that come from running young horses flat out for long periods. The stress on the lungs from running flat out when so young can tear connective tissue loose and make tears in the lungs, and the horses will literally be spraying blood from their nose as they run. Their is really no interest in training these horses to be anything other than race horses, and by the time they are retired they are not good for much. They have behaviors that make them unsuitable for anything else built in. A lot of them have psychological problems, and aren’t safe for riding. Sometimes you can work these out and retrain them. Sometimes you can’t. A few of the horses make it as pets, become decent schooling horses, jumpers, or what have you. Most are too injured and messed up in the head. So, yeah. It’s a business. Yeah. It’s cruel. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/11 "2006-05-26T14:25:04Z")
Horse racing = bad, but not near as bad as greyhound racing. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/12 "2006-05-27T20:05:10Z")
Horse racing and greyhound racing alike are not _intrinsically_ cruel - the horses and the dogs love to race. They’re bred for it, they love it, they’d do it whether you wanted them to or not - it’s not the racing itself that’s cruel to the animals, it’s whatever treatment may come along with it that may be cruel. (Often is, in the case of greyhounds. How many poor runners are killed these days - have the greyhound rescue groups made a significant dent in the practice? When my little terrier dies I’m considering getting one.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/13 "2006-05-27T20:13:28Z")
Horses running free in the pasture often race each other. Apparently it’s how they have fun. Mentioned in this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308851](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=308851) ---
**Author:** ![bic910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@bic910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bic910)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/14 "2006-05-28T01:12:59Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The stress on the lungs from running flat out when so young can tear connective tissue loose and make tears in the lungs, and the horses will literally be spraying blood from their nose as they run. I would like further details, and a cite please. > [@](#): > > Their is really no interest in training these horses to be anything other than race horses, and by the time they are retired they are not good for much. They have behaviors that make them unsuitable for anything else built in. A lot of them have psychological problems, and aren’t safe for riding. Okay… what else would you train a thoroughbred to do? I’ll grant you that a novice rider shouldn’t be on a retired thoroughbred, but that’s not the same thing as “not safe for riding.” I’d also like details on these psychological problems, please. > [@](#): > > Most are too injured and messed up in the head. Most? Cite or clarification, please. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/15 "2006-05-28T01:42:49Z")
> [@bic910](#): > > I would like further details, and a cite please. I don’t think it is necessarily as dramatic as Scylla puts it, but yes, many horses bleed after racing and exercise. [Here’s your cite, from a pet care site, article written by a veterinarian.](http://www.petcaretips.net/respiratory_disease_horse.html) Like another poster said, I don’t think the racing per se is cruel, but the treatment that they may receive could be. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2006, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/16 "2006-05-28T01:59:56Z")
> [@bic910](#): > > I would like further details, and a cite please. > > Okay… what else would you train a thoroughbred to do? I’ll grant you that a novice rider shouldn’t be on a retired thoroughbred, but that’s not the same thing as “not safe for riding.” I’d also like details on these psychological problems, please. Be a show horse. The first horse we bought was a former race horse (not a very good one) we got cheap and trained as a hunter, and sold for quite a bit more than we paid for it. Hunters and jumpers go over reasonably tall fences, no crop, and they want to do it - sometimes they don’t want to do it, and you know that real quickly. Sometimes the rider goes over the fence without the horse. I’m sure some of the injuries mentioned are for hunters and jumpers. Sometimes the riders don’t do so well either. And just to agree, if you see a crop and a horse next to each other you’ll know the crop is just giving the horse instructions, not hurting it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/17 "2006-05-28T02:14:59Z")
Last time I went to the track I was involved in 4 photo finishes. My picks lost them all. Yes horse racing is cruel. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2006, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/18 "2006-05-28T02:14:50Z")
Last time I went to the track I was involved in 4 photo finishes. My picks lost them all. Yes horse rtacing is cruel. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/19 "2006-05-28T03:02:39Z")
Here in Australia horses do not race lame because they are not allowed to race while under any medication. If a horse bleeds (shows blood in the nostrils after a race) it is barred from racing for 3 months. If it happens again it is barred for life. So very few horses spray blood. I don’t know how often horses fail to finish due to injury but it is far less common than 1 in 22 races. I honestly cannot recall the last time I saw a horse pull up lame in a race. [Here](http://www.racingnsw.com.au/page.asp?parm=vet.WELFAREGUIDELINES) are the Australian racing industry’s welfare guidelines for racehorses. As to whether they like running, all that stops them on race day is the jockey. If a horse dumps its rider before the start it will invariably tear off for a lap or two of the course. I have never seen a horse lose its rider in a race and pull up, they continue to race. And a visit to any stud farm will show you the natural racing urge of the horses. As soon as they can run they race one another around the paddocks. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2006, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262/20 "2006-05-28T20:07:22Z")
> [@Jebus H. Christ](#): > > Would these horse continue to run fast at the end of the race when that pain kicks in if they weren’t getting hit a riding crop? I honestly don’t know. Anyone know if horses would run like they do without being beat? It depends on the horse. I can recall two instances of Epsom Derby winners being on the end of some serious whip activity from their rider, Lester Piggott in both cases. Roberto won a short head in 1972 and The Minstrel emerged victorious a neck in 1977. There is no doubt in my mind that neither horse would have won without being put under pressure. Both horses went on to win more Group 1 races in the same season. Conversely, other horses do not respond to the whip. In fact they give up the struggle if hit. Such animals need to be cajoled through a race. Their handlers know this and instruct the rider not to use the stick. A third category responds to strong pressure maybe once and is then so soured by the experience that it subsequently fails to reproduce its best form. The rules regarding use of the whip in the UK have become more stringent over the years. The stewards take a dim view of excessive pressure and will stand down a rider for several days or weeks if he is guilty of such behaviour. It is also worth noting that a jockey who seems to be striking his mount to excess is sometimes merely ‘showing’ the horse the whip, although it might be argued that the animal then runs faster through fear of being hit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-horse-racing-cruel/358262.md?page=2)