R.I.P. Barbaro
I think horses get about as much out of running as human runners.
The animal does have a choice, and horse like to run. That’s why they can’t race mules.
If you’ve ever seen a major steeplechase like the Grand National, you’ll see horses who’ve dumped their riders and continue not only to run, but to leap the fences along the course.
Heck, some horses love to run so much, they’ll race anybody.
My parents bought a retired Thoroughbred off the track about six months ago. He’s a huge colt who raced at Oaklawn in Arkansas. He’s fast as light, but he just wasn’t fast enough to win. A friend of my dad trained him, and he did basically have to start over at the beginning. Racehorses are taught to run in the direction they’re pointed and keep running until the jockey pulls them up.
I think the most difficult thing for Scout to get over was the urge to run whenever he saw a clear flat piece of ground, whether he had a rider on his back or not. He’s a darling, sweet horse, very eager to please, and I know that’s helped him.
-Lil
First, a good jockey will not keep running a horse that seems a bit off–even if the 1 out of 22 races figure is correct (it’s PETA, after all), this may be more to prevent injury than because of injury.
The second figure, I assume, includes all thoroughbreds in N. America, which includes elderly horses and show jumpers, and often leg injuries can lead to an early death. These injuries can happen anywhere–horses are delicate and minor injuries can really escalate because they can’t be kept off their feet.
I do wish they wouldn’t race these horses before they are at least 3 years old. They’re still developing at 2. I had a retired thoroughbred when I was younger; he was about 5 when we got him and I used him for hunter-jumper. He was later sold as a lesson horse. Very gentle, sweet horse.
Is it cruel compared to what? Jumping horses, wild horses, cattle, bull fighting?
The horses are bred for racing. If they were not racing, they wouldn’t be picking flowers in a field. They simply wouldn’t be at all. As it is, they get to pass their genes to a next generation. Isn’t that what life is all about?
Indeed. I think the typical treatment of livestock is worse than how thoroughbreds are treated, and every single one of them is destined to die as soon as they reach adulthood. In the past, horses existed to work, pullling plows and carts, carrying people and cargo long distances in all weather.
They may not have it quite as good as your average housepet, but I don’t think that should be considered the standard by which we determine what is and isn’t cruel.
Hope they got a lot of sperm out of him for future AI while they kept it alive.
I had not been interested in horse racing before moving to Kentucky. But in an attempt to learn more about the state I lived in, I took a class offered through the local university that was an introduction to the sport. We learned about handicapping, learned about breeding, visited a stud farm to actually see how it was done, went to morning works, had guest speakers of trainers and jockeys answer our questions, learned the costs of owning and training a thoroughbred, etc.
After the class I was interested in learning more. I read many books about the subject. Some about previous Derby winners, some about the people involved in racing, many books about the history of man’s relationship with the horse.
I was about to join a local syndicate and become an owner of race horse. The book I was reading at the time, Three Strides Before the Wire, mentioned a few things I had not previously read about. It presented both the good and bad side of racing. It didn’t sugar coat it, it painted some very bad pictures. After reading that book, I was going to have rethink my involvement.
So I started asking questions. Living a city known for horse racing, it was not hard for me to meet people involved in racing. I was already friends with several trainers. They introduced me to other trainers, jockeys, bloodstock agents, jockey agents, and officials at the track.
They were very honest with me and confirmed what the book said. Some horses are abused, some do get sent to killer auctions to be served as a gourmet meal in France, some trainers do use illegal drugs, some jockeys have used buzzers to shock horses, some are started training too young and ruined, some are run when they are injured.
But these were very nice folks I was talking with, that didn’t make any sense. I asked them, “How can you be in such an abusive industry?” The answer was always the same, they loved horses.
That was odd, if someone loved horses, it seems they should be fighting to have racing banned, not be part of it. They explained that although the abuses were there, it was a small percent of what went on. Similar to owning a dog. We hear of many dogs being abused, starved, chained up outside in the freezing cold, abandoned on the road. Because some people abuse their dogs, should we outlaw dog ownership for everyone? If you know a neighbor beats his dog, should you assume all dog owners beat their dogs?
I could see their point. Of the 100’s of dogs I had met in my lifetime, by far the majority had great lives. That didn’t change the fact that some were abused, but it was rare compared to the number of dogs who were well taken care of. But I was still troubled about the horses that were in the bad situations. I still wasn’t sure I wanted to be a part of something that had the dark side that racing had.
So I did more research. I found that for every problem in racing, there was a group trying to fix the problem.
For the biggest problem, what to do with all the retired race horses I found a lot was being done. If you google “horse rescue” you will find them located in every state. Some are small and local; some are very large and national. But there are a lot of people out there finding homes for Thoroughbreds
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=horse+rescue
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=horse+racing+charities
And about the drugging of horses, I read everyday about the different racing states adding more and more mandatory drug testing. California recently updated their list of drugs they will test for and have increased the penalties for positive results. It is far from perfect, but it is making a differencing and improving each year.
And about the slaughter houses. That is a much bigger issue and involves much more than thoroughbreds. But some thoroughbreds do end up there, the actual number varies wildly from report to report. But people in racing are working with others to have those plants shut down. You will find many of the thoroughbred race horse message boards posting things like this, to pass around. https://community.hsus.org/campaign/FED_2007_horse_slaughter
And I haven’t checked on this current bill, but the one last year was sponsored and heavily supported by most of the states most involved in horse racing like Kentucky and California.
And I found the groups working to improve racing, were made up of the people in racing. They weren’t outside groups trying force racing to do something they didn’t want to do. They were the ones involved in racing, and wanted the horses treated better.
That idea appealed to me. So I decided to get involved. I found a group that shared my desire to see racing improve. We all agree the horse comes first. We breed horses that we will race ourselves. That means we can chose sires for their soundness that may tend to sire later developing horses. Those who breed to sell often use the unproven “trendy” sires that will fetch a higher price in the sales ring, or sires that produce early runners that don’t make it past their three year old year before injury forces them to retire.
We choose trainers that won’t start training the horses until the horse is ready. We have vets x-ray their legs and wait until they are completely mature before they start their serious training. Most of our horses don’t make their first starts until well into their three year old year. The ones that start earlier only do so because they developed a bit faster than average and were ready. And we have trainers that will take their time with the horse. If the horse looks like they may have a problem, the trainer gives the time off that is needed. We are not in a big hurry, we can wait. The most important thing is to have healthy horse.
We chose trainers who are known for training “clean.” On the backside word gets out who is trying to beat the system and using illegal drugs, so we ask around and find the ones who also put the horse first and don’t use drugs to mask problems or that might lead to problems down the road.
And when our horses are unable to be competitive, we retire them. We have had two that never made it the track. They were just too big and slow to race. They are both hunter/jumpers now. We have had several that won a few times, but they were never going to make money. They would have to compete at the low levels for low purses, so we retired them sound and they are now also doing eventing. Some of our mares are now broodmares, the better runners will be bred to TB’s, and the others will be bred for eventing horses.
I am fortunate that the farm where our horses are is very close to my house. I have been able to be there a couple of times to see a foal born. It is the most amazing experience. It is hard to believe unless you see it how quickly the little ones learn to stand, take their first steps and start to nurse. And I can tell you, having been with these little ones from their first moments, I am connected to them. I fall in love every time. I visit them as they learn to play and explore the world. Am always shocked how quickly they grow. I dread when they are weaned, knowing how they will cry and miss their mamas. For one day anyway, then they move on forming their own little herd of weanlings.
I spend time with them as yearlings and two year olds, until they go for their training. By that time I am quite attached to them, I know their quirks and habits. I worry each time that when they leave the farm to go to the track, they will be miserable, not outside playing everyday like when they were young. But every time I visit them at the barn, I see they are happy. They adjust to their new surroundings. Learn and like their new routines. They love when it is their turn to be dressed for their works in the morning. You see how excited they are when they step on the track. They come back, get a nice bath, have a meal, then pretty much just hang out all day. Having spent so much time around them, if they were unhappy there, I would know. But I can tell they have adjusted just fine to their new life.
I do worry each time one of our horses enters a race. I know there is a chance the horse could break down. Even when doing everything right, good trainer, strong horse they sometimes clip heals or take a bad step. But the odds of it are very small. Perhaps the same odds that when I put my dog in the car to take her to the park that we might get in a car accident and she will be injured or killed. I know that is a possibility, but it doesn’t stop me from taking her to the park whenever I can. So I know our horses exist to run and we run them. If I felt they were in great danger, I wouldn’t be part of racing. I couldn’t get so attached to them knowing it would likely end badly.
We have never had a horse break down, but have had several pulled up by the jockey. In one case the jockey, who had ridden the horse several times and was very familiar with him said he felt “the horse couldn’t get his feet under him” on the surface. It was the first time this horse ran on the new synthetic track, and he didn’t adjust to it. The jockey felt it safer to pull him up than force him to go on with him not feeling confident. Most horses like the new artificial surface, but this one didn’t. Another horse was pulled up when the jock felt the horse was having trouble breathing. He could hear the horse struggle to get air, so he stopped him. We scoped him after the race and found he had a lung infection. He was treated with antibiotics and was just fine. So often when you see a horse pulled up, it may be something simple and treatable, not necessarily career or life ending.
I think a lot of people who are now criticizing racing as it is again in the headlines with a very sad story, are basing their opinions of it being cruel on outdated information. Things really have improved from the way things once had been. With the increased drug testing, the trainers who had been abusing horses by running them when injured are not able to do that as often. Jockeys are more able to have an unsound horse scratched. Track vets are more closely checking horses and scratching them if they see a problem. All of this is leading to more horses being retired before they are ruined and needing to be put down.
I think at one time that things were very much like Scylla described. But it has really come a long way in the past few years. Much of the bad part of racing was covered up, people had no idea what was really going on. When the story of Ferdinand made headlines, people wanted to do something to make sure that would never happened again. Not to a Derby winner, not to any race horse. Every track now has volunteers that work with the trainers. They let the trainers know if a horse can no longer run, they will take them and retrain them and find them a new home.
It isn’t a perfect system yet. Some trainers would rather get a few 100 bucks from a rendering company or sell the horse to a slaughter house. But the public pressure on those trainers is making a difference. Owners are being educated to make sure if their trainer tells them they will retire their horse to a nice farm in the country, that is really what is done. In the past many owners were lied to and had no idea their horses were sent to slaughter.
We need more places that will take in the horses and retrain them. We need to streamline the process to make it easier. We need to make sure the places that are taking the horses know how to handle thoroughbreds right off the track, and that they screen the new owners of the horses very carefully to make sure the horse will be in capable hands. There is still a lot to do, but it is getting done.
So all that is a long way to say I don’t think racing is anymore cruel that dog ownership. There are some bad stories out there. Some heartbreaking stories, but to only focus on those and ignore the majority of the times when things end well for the horses is not an accurate picture.
That has been speculated on, but I rather doubt it. They could not use AI to produce a thoughbred to race. The Jockey Club insists any TB be concieved by a natural cover. They video tape the event and give a tape to the owners as proof that the mare got the sire that was agreed upon. They also do DNA testing to prove who the dam and sire are.
One of the reasons for this is to protect the gene pool. If Barbaro had broken down and went on to win the Triple Crown, he would have been much in demand as a sire. If AI was allowed, there would be so many people wanting to use him, and maybe a few other popular sires that in a short time the gene pool would become quite limited.
As it is, the more in demand sires are only able to service so many mares ( although they are really pushing it these days). Their being in demand means they get several $100,000 per mare. For the majority of folks that don’t have that kind of money, there are plenty of others to chose from at pretty much any price, so a wide variety of sires are used.
Another reason I am sure is the people who are now making so much from the high stud fees like the system the way it is. They tend to have a lot of influence so I don’t see the system changing anytime soon.
You can’t race horses that were conceived through artificial insemination, so there was no point.
The American Quarter Horse Association does permit registration of horses conceived through AI. If Barbaro’s semen had been collected, it could have been used for outcrosses on Quarter Horse mares, and the foals could be registered as Appendix QHs, and run in races sanctioned by the AQHA. But the stud fee wouldn’t have been anywhere near what it would be for him as a TB sire. There’s also the fact that QH races are run at a quarter of a mile distance or less, as the breed is renowned for sprinters rather than stayers. Barbaro’s sire, Dynaformer, has a lot of distance runners in his pedigree. Barbaro himself looked like a stayer rather than a sprinter. All of which would reduce his attractiveness for QH breeders.
Also, Barbaro wasn’t trained to mount the phantom mare for collection, and even if he had been, he wasn’t physically able to while he was recuperating from his injuries. Had he lived, he might never have been bred anyway if he wasn’t able to support himself on his hind legs in the breeding shed. He’d have lived out his life as a fiendishly expensive pasture ornament, much loved but useless as a sire.
Do the French pay more for steaks from a thoroughbred than they do for steaks from a plug? And BTW, I’ve tasted horsemeat and they can have it.
My understanding is that once the horse gets to the slaughter house they are considered all the same, so the other countries that buy the meat don’t know what kind of horse it was.
But the slaughter houses do pay more for the horses per lb than the rendering plants will pay. Working with horse rescues, we know this can make a difference. A trainer may decide to give a horse to the rescue farm rather than have it killed if monetarily they don’t lose much. If a rendering plant was willing to pay $200 and we can offer them $100, they may just do the right thing and give the horse to us.
But the slaughter houses are willing to pay much more. They may offer $800 and we can’t compete with that. They are also more interested in taking the healthier, younger horses, which are the ones given a limited budget we would more be able to help. But they pretty much take anything alive.
The reason the slaughter houses get more money for horse meat for human consumption than the rendering plants get for horses used in other products ( but not dog food, horses are not used in dog food in the US anymore) is that the horses used for human consumption must be alive when they reach the slaughter house. They must be alive when their throats are slit and bled out. The rendering plants will take horses that have (ideally) been humanely euthanized, or died from some other cause, so there is no additional suffering for horses that end up being rendered.
That is my main problem with the slaughter houses. Those horses do suffer before they are killed. I won’t go into the details, but it is not anything you want to think of your dog being subjected if your dog needed to be put to sleep. They use the same method to deal with the horses as they do cows. Cows are not flight animals, horses are. So what can be considered humane for a cow, is not for a horse who will fight and and struggle the entire time it is the hands of the slaughter house people. It can be over 48 hours of hellish treatment. And those that love horses want to see that end.
The US doesn’t really get any benefit from these slaughter houses. From what I read, they are foriegned owned and work it out that they don’t pay any US taxes. They can claim a loss here, knowing their profit will come later, not at the point the horses are slaughtered in the US. There are only three left, and really don’t employ that many people. In fact the towns these plants are located in are fighting to shut the plants down. Horrible sounds and smells come from these plants, and makes it hard for the towns to attract other business and new residents.
The rendering plants are generally seen as providing a service as far as disposing of the horse bodies. Still not a pleasant thought, but for the most part horses that end up being rendered don’t suffer like the slaughter house horses are guaranteed to do because the horses to be rendered are already dead. ( at least the TB’s are. I don’t know if other breeds are more likely to be brought in alive, but I would doubt it. Much easier to handle a body than a live horse.
And as far as eating horsemeat, besides a natural aversion I might have because I think of horses as I do dogs, and wouln’t want to eat someone’s pet dog, I wouldn’t want to eat it knowing where some of the horses come from that are turned into steaks. The trainers likely to sell a horse to a slaughter house are likely to be the same trainers who use all sorts of illegal drugs on the horses. In a last ditch effort to get a horse to win, they could pump it up with anything. Then when the horse doesn’t win, they sell him the the slaughter house. That horse could be full of all kinds illegal steriods, and other things the average person might not want to ingest. The slaughter house doesn’t screen for that stuff, so you really can’t know what is in it.
All that is the bad side of racing we are trying to eliminate. The horses that run on the better circuits are drug tested and those trainers have reputations to protect. But there are some places at the lower end of racing that have not worked at weeding out the trainers that use illegal drugs and knowing that I woudn’t want to risk eating horsemeat.
You have any cites to prove any of this that aren’t from animal rights fanatics? Like the USDA or IRS? It sounds like the typical lies and half truths that animal welfare organizations usually tell.
Then keeping it alive was a pretty stupid decision.
Only if you don’t give a shit about the animal. The Jacksons loved Barbaro and would have been happy if he’d healed enough to live out a comfortable life. They’d have been a lot happier, of course, if he’d recovered well enough to breed.
But then, you’ve shown in other threads how little you understand about the bond between humans and animals. It’s not all about the money.
Oh, and by the way, horses do in fact get medicated with stuff that would disqualify them from being fit to eat, and not just via illegal treatment of racehorses. My own horse has at times received vet-prescribed medicine that has a warning on the label it mustn’t be given to animals destined for human consumption.
Ah, but they can.
Mule races are the best. Lots of people flying. If there is an “animal abusing” sport where the animals gets their fair chance to get even, that’s mule racing.
I understand the human bond. If they loved it, then they should have put it down. It was cruel to to keep it alive to satisfy their own emotional and mental weaknesses. I can however understand the intelligent, sane reason of making a dollar though, since it was just a thing after all.
But I also understand the bad thing that this human bond has unfortunately became where some people mandate what others can do with their private property when it happens to be animal. Really, if you don’t want to slaughter your horse when it’s no longer useful, lame, in pain, dying, etc., then don’t. More power to you. But don’t take the low road that all animal rights fanatics follow and force those without such ideals from slaughtering their no longer useful horse(s).
I see that you post no proof about a broad human health danger of the slaughter horses. Other societies with sanitary and food safety laws eat them. Why in the Hell can’t we? Because it bothers bunny hugging idiots, doesn’t seem like a real good reason to me.