# Is Howard Dean screwing up as DNC chairman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273 "2005-05-24T16:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/241 "2005-06-09T21:42:00Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Knowing some of your postions BG, Dean probably does seem like a centrist to you. But I don’t think that is how he is perceived by most people. Trust me, **Evil,** Dean isn’t even on the left flank of the Democratic Party. That would be represented by, say, Dennis Kucinich. Dean might be anti-war and pro-civil-unions, but in economic terms – which is what really counts here – he’s not far from the Democratic Leadership Council. Have you ever heard Dean call for more progressive/redistributive taxation, pro-labor-union legislation, or any other form of economic populism? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/242 "2005-06-09T21:44:09Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > I, for one, was inspired by Dean’s active presence in the DNC to give a little dough to them for the first time in a while. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, Republicans have a lead in first time contributors over the Democrats of about 3.5 to 1. This is especailly important due to the change in campaign finance rules. Dean’s presence had a positive effect on you and no doubt on others. What cannot be measured is the negative effect his behavior is having. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/243 "2005-06-09T21:46:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Trust me, **Evil,** Dean isn’t even on the left flank of the Democratic Party. That would be represented by, say, Dennis Kucinich. Dean might be anti-war and pro-civil-unions, but in economic terms – which is what really counts here – he’s not far from the Democratic Leadership Council. Have you ever heard Dean call for more progressive/redistributive taxation, pro-labor-union legislation, or any other form of economic populism? No, BG, I have not. I concede your point. Compared to Dennis “Department of Peace” Kucinich", Dean is indeed closer to the middle. Which, to me, makes his behavior even more puzzling. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/244 "2005-06-09T21:50:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Dean might be anti-war and pro-civil-unions, but in economic terms – which is what really counts here – Why? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/245 "2005-06-09T22:05:29Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Why? YMMV, but I think economic policy, not social or cultural attitude, is what really distinguishes a “leftist” from a “liberal.” See this old thread on the question: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262432&highlight=leftist](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262432&highlight=leftist) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/246 "2005-06-09T22:28:37Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Oh no. It cuts both ways. People in Dean’s (and Gillespie’s) position are in the spotlight, with every mistake noted and magnified by their idealogical opponents. But Dean is much more likely to get publicity for his statments, being the former media darling that he was. I’m a news junkie, and I couldn’t even tell you who the RNC chairman is. Of course, this can help the Dems as much as it hurts them, and that’s up to Dean himself. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/247 "2005-06-10T00:22:50Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > Dean’s mouth is getting in the way of raising cash. And that is going to be will eventually do him in. What evidence do you have of this? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/248 "2005-06-10T00:25:04Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > On the contrary. Most Republican partisans jumps for joy whenever Dean dispalys diarrea of the mouth. Just ask **Shodan** , **Bricker** , or **Mr Moto** if they want Dean to keep quiet. Really? It seems like they are stamping their feet, crying and endlessly repeating “I’m warning you! I’m warning you! You’re going to lose every election if he keeps this up.” Seems to me if they really liked it they would sit back and let it happen. Then again, I don’t have the keen political guile that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/249 "2005-06-10T02:02:00Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > What evidence do you have of this? Go back to the earlier cites in this thread which reference the reluctance of big Democratic donors to give up their money to Dean. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/250 "2005-06-10T02:13:37Z")
> [@Evil One](#): > > I posed this question earlier in the thread and I ask it again. Do any of you think that Howard Dean will be head of the DNC at this time next year? > > Given the current environment and his behavior, I’m going to say no. Depends how fast the party can rain in his mouth. He has to reinvent himself quickly and that’s certainly within his abilities. His most recent remarks to the press show that he is forced to address the issue of this debate. [snip:](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050609/pl_afp/usdeanpolitics_050609192050) WASHINGTON (AFP) - Former presidential contender Howard Dean insisted he is focused on advancing his Democratic Party’s political agenda, despite a firestorm over his recent incendiary, anti-Republican comments. If he is incapable of keeping his mouth shut then I agree he is looking at a new career next year. Time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/251 "2005-06-10T02:15:54Z")
That would be “reign” not “rain”. Stupid mental spell check. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/252 "2005-06-10T02:27:13Z")
This isn’t particularly relevant to anything in this thread, but I found it funny: [Howard Dean and Queen do “Flash Gordon”](http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/multimedia/dean_flash.mp3) As for relevant comments, if I were a Democrat I’d be getting rid of Dean right this very second. I say that because as a fencesitter who loathes the Republican Party as it exists right now, if Howard Dean is at all representative of the Democrats (and I have to assume he is, as chairman of the DNC) I’m having a real hard time trying to find a reason to vote Democrat. He plays to the base, great. But the base always goes Democrat, so he’s creating a big political sausage fest, and that doesn’t help the Democrats. They need someone who can bring some of those people that haven’t worked an honest job in their lives into the fold or they’ll be sucking hind tit for years to come. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/253 "2005-06-10T02:47:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That would be “reign” not “rain”. Stupid mental spell check. No, that would be “rein,” not “reign.” ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/254 "2005-06-10T02:51:43Z")
And we see in the response to **rjung** ’s post above the very essence of IOKIARDI. Statements like Gillespie’s are practically cliche among the GOP–Democrats hate America, Democrats support terrorists, Democrats hate families, Democrats are immoral. Think about it–it is big news, and cause for outrage, when a prominent Democrat takes on a harsh tone while suggesting that Republicans are mostly concerned about straight white Christian males. Similar invective (and far worse) by prominent Republicans is so common that it fades into the background. The Republicans have gone to incredible lengths to appeal to their base, not least of all their reprehensible behavior in the Schiavo case. (The Dems aren’t blameless, but let’s not kid ourselves about who was at the helm.) But when Dean uses some fiery speeches to try to fire up the Democrat base, he is “out of control”. If I live for a thousand years, I’ll never understand any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/255 "2005-06-10T02:55:09Z")
Here’s an interesting piec from [Media Matters](http://mediamatters.org/items/200506030009) which echos something I heard in a news report on the radio today. It seems Howard Dean’s fundraising “failures” have been greatly exaggerated and spun by the Bush-controlled, right wing media. > [@](#): > > BusinessWeek reporters Eamon Javers and Richard Dunham baselessly asserted in a June 6 article that Democratic National Committee (DNC) chairman Howard Dean is not an effective fund-raiser, a claim that Fox News hosts Brit Hume and John Gibson echoed. But in making this claim, Javers and Dunham simply compared DNC fund-raising with money raised this year by the Republican National Committee (RNC), rather than comparing fund-raising by the Dean-led DNC this year with that of the DNC in 2003, the most recent election off-year. > > Javers and Dunham began their analysis noting that “[a]fter achieving money parity with the GOP in 2004, Democrats have fallen far behind.” But this creates a flawed standard to evaluate Dean’s success, as 2004 was the first time in history that Democrats had achieved such a feat. Noting that the DNC raised $14.1 million in the first quarter of 2005 compared to $32.3 million by the RNC, they concluded that “Dean may yet find ways to build bridges to reluctant donors, but few think he’ll ever be another [preceding DNC chair] Terry McAuliffe, the human money machine whom he replaced.” > > But a comparison of Dean’s first three months as chairman shows that he has actually out-raised his predecessor during the same period in 2003. Dean raised $14.8 million between February and April (the latest data available), versus $8.5 million during that period in 2003, the previous non-election year. Additionally, the DNC has raised more in comparison to the RNC over the past three months than it did during 2003. The RNC raised $32.4 million between February and April, about 2.2 times the rate of the Democrats. Over the same period in 2003 the RNC raised $25.7 million, more than three times the rate of the DNC. Media Matters is citing statistics from February through April, rather than the first-quarter statistics that BusinessWeek used, because Dean did not assume leadership of the DNC until February 12. > > Javers and Dunham also noted the “bottom line” that Republicans had $26.2 million in the bank vs. $7.2 million for the Democrats at the end of the first quarter this year, failing to note that this is nearly double the $3.9 million the DNC had on hand at the end of the first quarter in 2003. So the truth is that Dean is actually outraising McCauliff. Get used to him. He rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/256 "2005-06-10T02:56:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, that would be “rein,” not “reign.” That would be “right”, not “write”. Gotta laugh at yourself after a crappy day in the mines. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/257 "2005-06-10T03:03:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Here’s an interesting piec from [Media Matters](http://mediamatters.org/items/200506030009) which echos something I heard in a news report on the radio today. It seems Howard Dean’s fundraising “failures” have been greatly exaggerated and spun by the Bush-controlled, right wing media. > > So the truth is that Dean is actually outraising McCauliff. Get used to him. He rocks. This is one big circular debate. Dean’s mouth has put him in the spotlight (by his own admission) but it’s OK with his supporters to insult people as long as he brings in money. There is no debate that both sides want to keep him in his current position. If we could all agree to run him again for President in 2008 then all will be happy. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/258 "2005-06-10T03:07:59Z")
Let’s face it guys, Dems havent a prayer. What with GeeDubya’s approval soaring into the low forties, his stunning triumph in Iraq, the utter brilliance of his privatization campaign, and the way every week brings but another example of his faultless command of the situation. What was it this week…in just one _week_!.. oh, yeah, oil lobbyists rewriting scientific reports, a multi-billion dollar smooch for Boeing, buy property from rich Florida donors that we may even already fucking _own_!.. in one fucking _week_! Yeah, we’re in big trouble. Lord help us if we get tossed into that briar patch! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/259 "2005-06-10T03:26:03Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > …but it’s OK with his supporters to insult people as long as he brings in money. Oh my heavens! Did the mean old Democrat insult somebody? GASP. Swoon. We just better lie down and rest for a while. We’ll be back to ourselves in no time. **Evil One** , yes, assertions are all well and good. What are the numbers that prove that any donors are reluctant? Show me, dammit. Otherwise, we are back to square one, with you merely making claims that fly in the face of any measure. Of course, that pretty much is par for the course for Republicans. Did I just say that? Oh, that Mean Howard Dean - he’s catching! I better stop before I make someone here my bi-yeeaarrrrrrr-ch. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/260 "2005-06-10T03:44:37Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Let’s face it guys, Dems havent a prayer. What with GeeDubya’s approval soaring into the low forties, his stunning triumph in Iraq, the utter brilliance of his privatization campaign, and the way every week brings but another example of his faultless command of the situation. > > What was it this week…in just one _week_!.. oh, yeah, oil lobbyists rewriting scientific reports, a multi-billion dollar smooch for Boeing, buy property from rich Florida donors that we may even already fucking _own_!.. in one fucking _week_! > > Yeah, we’re in big trouble. Lord help us if we get tossed into that briar patch! You laugh and you kid, but only seven months ago the Republicans consolidated their power. Nothing has changed to improve the Democrat positioning for the next election. The Republicans will likely get to nominate a Supreme Court justice this summer, and maybe one or two more after that. I’m sorry, dude, but right now the Democrats are owned lock, stock and barrel. All they can do is obstruct, and that plays to the Republicans. Now your national voice insults over half the country on a regular basis? No matter how bad the Republicans may seem to you, Howard Dean is making them look rational by comparison. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273.md?page=14)