# Is Howard Dean screwing up as DNC chairman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273 "2005-05-24T16:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/281 "2005-06-10T14:23:50Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Was he talking about only politicians when he referred to people who had never made an honest living in their lives? Yes, without any doubt. He certainly wasn’t talking about NASCAR dads. Any other inference is self-imposed. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/282 "2005-06-10T14:27:57Z")
“Mr. President, how do you explain the wild overpayments to Boeing for a leasing project that the Pentagon neither needs nor wants?” “Just the kind of thing Howard Dean would say!” “Mr. President, a while back VP Cheney said that the insurgency was about to collapse, yet more of our people die every day. How do you account for this discrepency?” “Howard Dean is dissing our wonderful troops, which causes the insurgency to be encouraged, because they, like all of us, hang on Howard Dean’s every word. Did I mention our wonderful, wonderful troops? Well, Howard Dean doesn’t think so, because Howard Dean hates freedom!” “Mr. President, Tom DeLay was recently implicated in a plan to circumvent American labor laws in the Mariannas, to permit sweatshop labor products to be sold in the US under US labels. Have you any comment?” “Howard Dean! Look over there, it’s Howard Dean! Shiny! and hateful!” ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/283 "2005-06-10T14:30:19Z")
> [@](#): > > What is being done to the guilty terrorists being held in Abu Ghraib and Gitmo is not torture, especially when compared to the “tender mercies” of Saddam Hussein and the real torture that is going on in other parts of the world (hint: Iran). Not torture? Surely you jest. Guilty terrorists? When was the trial? Is what the US doing on the level of Hussein? No. Is what the US doing reprehensible and an affront to behavior of civilized nations? Yes. > [@](#): > > And you are (unsurprisingly) ignoring the many Iraqi’s who are happy that Saddam is gone, including those that voted. Saddam is gone. What’s in his place? Anarchy. Until system 2 is operational, you can’t compare it to system 1. There are certainly some Iraqis that are more free with Saddam gone, while others are less free. The average man in the street had little to fear from Saddam if he kept his nose clean. But now the average man in the street is in an endless combat zone. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/284 "2005-06-10T14:39:07Z")
[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_ap\_ipsos\_poll](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_ap_ipsos_poll) **Poll: Bush Job Approval Dips to New Low** > [@](#): > > About one-third of adults, 35 percent, said they think the country is headed in the right direction, while 43 percent said they approve of the job being done by Bush. Just 41 percent say they support his handling of the war, also a low-water mark…The poll conducted for AP by Ipsos found 45 percent support Bush’s foreign policy, down from 52 percent in March…Support for Bush’s handling of domestic issues remained in the high 30s and low 40s in the latest AP-Ipsos poll… Howard Dean! Howard Dean! Howard Dean is French! ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/285 "2005-06-10T14:42:47Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > There was indeed torture, and are you sure the “terrorists” as you call them had been tried and found guilty? I agree that the comparison with Saddam Hussein was a bit over the top, but you can’t deny that torture happened under the US’s authority. Okay. Taking a step back and removing my “USA can do no wrong rose-colored glasses ™”, I freely admit that though it doesn’t rise to the level of torture perpetrated by Hussein and many others still active, it was indeed torture, and it is a shame. I retract that statement. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Saddam is gone. What’s in his place? Anarchy. Until system 2 is operational, you can’t compare it to system 1. There are certainly some Iraqis that are more free with Saddam gone, while others are less free. The average man in the street had little to fear from Saddam if he kept his nose clean. But now the average man in the street is in an endless combat zone. Well, things are getting better in Iraq every day. And unless the average man in the street is on a street in Baghdad or in close proximity to the local airport, he is (relatively) safe. I certainly wouldn’t call Iraqi’s provisional government “Anarchy”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/286 "2005-06-10T14:43:29Z")
I’m terribly worried about Bush’s approval numbers. At this rate, it’ll be impossible for him to get reelected. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/287 "2005-06-10T14:46:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_ap\_ipsos\_poll](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_ap_ipsos_poll) > > **Poll: Bush Job Approval Dips to New Low** > Howard Dean! Howard Dean! Howard Dean is French! Would you mind contributing something useful to the debate? This isn’t open mic night at _Banana’s_, **elucidator**. You can work out your “material” in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/288 "2005-06-10T14:50:35Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > And unless the average man in the street is on a street in Baghdad or in close proximity to the local airport, he is (relatively) safe. I certainly wouldn’t call Iraqi’s provisional government “Anarchy”. Would you accept the same in the US? Suppose it was “unless the average American is on a street in Washington or in close proximity to the local airport, he is (relatively) safe.” I won’t call the provisional government less than anarchy until the leaders stop getting picked off with regularity. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/289 "2005-06-10T15:04:02Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I’m terribly worried about Bush’s approval numbers. At this rate, it’ll be impossible for him to get reelected. And yet you seem obsessively pre-occupied with Howard Dean’s reputation, even though he is not a candidate either. I wonder why that is? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/290 "2005-06-10T15:13:49Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I’m terribly worried about Bush’s approval numbers. At this rate, it’ll be impossible for him to get reelected. Yes. Too bad America didn’t come to its senses in October. Buyers’ remorse doesn’t do our reputation/international goodwill any good now. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/291 "2005-06-10T15:25:13Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I could not ask for better proof of Dean’s effectiveness than the way the right wing echo chamber is going after him. Plus, it’s funny to hear people like Anne Coulter, Rush Limbaugh and Bill O’Reilly criticizing Dean for saying harsh things. It’s like the residents of the local bordello are criticizing the schoolmarm’s shockingly short (ankle length!) dress. What are Democratic Party leaders saying about him? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/292 "2005-06-10T15:26:41Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Yes, without any doubt. He certainly wasn’t talking about NASCAR dads. Any other inference is self-imposed. Without any doubt? You’re kidding. He was complaining about the long lines to vote in Florida and how some people could afford to stand in line for 8 hours. [Link](http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050603-123932-6657r.htm): > [@](#): > > Speaking to the Campaign for America’s Future, Mr. Dean called for easier rules for voting, saying it is difficult for working parents to make it to the polls on time and wait to vote. > “Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that, because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives,” Mr. Dean said. “But for ordinary working people, who have to work eight hours a day, they have kids, they got to get home to those kids, the idea of making them stand for eight hours to cast their ballot for democracy is wrong.” Are you still going to claim that wasn’t a slam at voters? And it doesn’t look like Democrativ politiicians are too thrilled with Dean either. [Dean’s GOP barbs earn an earful from both sides](http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/nation/11861537.htm): > [@](#): > > Just four months into his tenure as head of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean has found himself on unforgiving – if familiar – terrain. As he visited Capitol Hill on Thursday, he faced a growing number of critics and received a private scolding from leading members of his party for several derogatory remarks he has made about Republicans in recent weeks. > > Republicans have attacked Dean with glee for those remarks, which they have described as ``below the belt,’’ while Democrats struggled to defend him yet quietly acknowledged that he was showing signs of being as polarizing as they once feared. Emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/293 "2005-06-10T15:35:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap\_on\_go\_pr\_wh/bush\_ap\_ipsos\_poll](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050610/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_ap_ipsos_poll) > > **Poll: Bush Job Approval Dips to New Low** > Howard Dean! Howard Dean! Howard Dean is French! You’re right. It sure looks like Bush is in trouble in '08. How can anyone be talking about Dean, when the GOP’s clear nominee for president is doing so poorly in the polls. Whatever will the Repulbicans do??? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/294 "2005-06-10T15:39:07Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Would you accept the same in the US? Suppose it was “unless the average American is on a street in Washington or in close proximity to the local airport, he is (relatively) safe.” > > I won’t call the provisional government less than anarchy until the leaders stop getting picked off with regularity. No, I wouldn’t accept the same in the US. But we aren’t talking about the US. And things will improve in Iraq. They must. Look: war is a bloody business. Rebuilding a country’s infrastructure and fighting off insurgents takes time. But I absolutely believe we are making progress, and that things are getting better everyday. As fast as I would like? No. We would all like to see things move faster in Iraq so that the nation could support itself and we could bring our troops back home. It will happen eventually. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/295 "2005-06-10T15:40:38Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Look: war is a bloody business. That’s why you don’t start them for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/296 "2005-06-10T15:45:01Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > And we see in the response to **rjung** ’s post above the very essence of IOKIARDI. > > If I live for a thousand years, I’ll never understand any of this. Just keep repeating to yourself “IOKIYAAR”. But how? I think that’s obvious. You have a huge cadre of people who allow total deniability that will say all the horrible things you want about The Enemy (let’s face it, that’s what it’s come down to - they’re not The Opposition anymore) and legions of people who will gleefully tune in to hear the latest in The Enemy’s Horrible Actions. The whole time they’ve managed to convince Their Side that everyone who doesn’t Agree With Us is obviously part of some “liberal bias”. Really, if you think about it, they’ve managed to manipulate perceptions so that The Center is now actually to the right of where it used to be, and therefore everything that used to be Centrist is now Leftist. And we all know that Leftist = Threat. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/297 "2005-06-10T15:49:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Howard Dean! Howard Dean! Howard Dean is French! If only Howard Dean were a missing white woman… ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/298 "2005-06-10T16:11:34Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I’m terribly worried about Bush’s approval numbers. At this rate, it’ll be impossible for him to get reelected. Come now, Mr. Moto. There’s a reason Mr. Bush and his advisors might care what public opinion of him is. A practical political reason. Don’t you know what it is? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/299 "2005-06-10T16:31:15Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > That’s why you don’t start them for no reason. Good thing the US didn’t, then. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/300 "2005-06-10T16:37:42Z")
What was the reason? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273.md?page=16)