# Is Howard Dean screwing up as DNC chairman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273 "2005-05-24T16:25:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/141 "2005-06-06T03:24:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m willing, but I believe it would be prudent to discuss some sort of escrow procedure before agreeing to this. E-mail me, and let’s see if we can’t come up with some acceptable procedure… That’s OK,\*\* Bricker\*\*, I trust you. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/142 "2005-06-06T03:45:31Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I was thinking specifically of Terry McAuliffe. I was thinking of the Democrats who didn’t have the balls to stand up and vote against the war or Bush’s tax cuts, or even more recently the bankruptcy bill. Bill Clinton may have been more toward the moderate wing of the Democratic Party, but he sure as hell didn’t pull punches. When the Republicans brought shit, the Ragin Cajun didn’t back down, and actually had a rapid response team. Remember “It’s the economy, stupid”? Hey, I liked Bubba (somewhat), but he certainly did back down. Look at his health care plan and some of the other things he tried to do in his first term. He saw they weren’t going to fly and changed direction in midstream…and stole the Republicans thunder by repackaging their own programs and making them his (you could practically hear the Republican heads explodin in D.C 😛 ). And…it won him a second term IMO. Something that Democrats seem to be having a pretty hard doing the first time around lately (and before him). Personally (FWIW…probably not much) I think there are a lot of lessons to be learned by the Democrats from ole Bubba…but they aren’t learning any of them unfortunately (again, IMO). Obviously YMMV and its your party…my own party can’t seem to even get 1% of the popular vote so what the hell do I know? Maybe the American people really don’t want a move back to the center, but instead want a leap to the left. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/143 "2005-06-06T03:53:07Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Maybe the American people really don’t want a move back to the center, but instead want a leap to the left. They certainly didn’t give any indication of that in November 2004 . . . but then, it wasn’t one of the options they were offered. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/144 "2005-06-06T04:02:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > They certainly didn’t give any indication of that in November 2004 . . . but then, it wasn’t one of the options they were offered. No, it wasn’t…all that was offered was a choice of evils. Left of center or right of center. As I said…maybe folks really do want to go left. Maybe they want to go right. Myself…I just wish there was a party of the center between the wings, but thats just me. Obviously I’m not the majority of American’s here. 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/145 "2005-06-06T04:12:30Z")
Nota bene: > [@](#): > > Dean “doesn’t speak for me with that kind of rhetoric and I don’t think he speaks for the majority of Democrats,” Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said Sunday on ABC’s “This Week.” > [@](#): > > Dean is “a voice. I don’t agree with it,” Edwards, a former senator and the Democrats’ vice presidential nominee in 2004, said Saturday at a party fundraising dinner in Nashville, Tenn. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/05/AR2005060500462\_pf.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/05/AR2005060500462_pf.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/146 "2005-06-06T04:18:01Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > No, it wasn’t…all that was offered was a choice of evils. Left of center or right of center. As I said…maybe folks really do want to go left. Maybe they want to go right. Myself…I just wish there was a party of the center between the wings, but thats just me. Obviously I’m not the majority of American’s here. 🙂 > > -XT Indeed. Check out this old thread (now locked): [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269169](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269169) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/147 "2005-06-06T05:00:21Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Nota bene: I respect Biden and Edwards too much to actually call them rats, but Dean could well be the sinking ship here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/148 "2005-06-06T05:14:12Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I respect Biden and Edwards too much to actually call them rats, but Dean could well be the sinking ship here. Sometimes the rats panic needlessly and the ship sails on. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/149 "2005-06-06T05:22:50Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > That’s OK,\*\* Bricker\*\*, I trust you. I’d be most comfortable at a flat $200, I think. Shall we agree that our bet’s doubled, other terms remaining the same? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/150 "2005-06-06T05:36:03Z")
I would like to point out, gentlemen, that a generous donation from the winner to the Mother’s March Against Congnitive Dissonance would be a selfless gesture of civic virtue. And would doubtless be widely regarded with a degree of approval that neither of you has previously enjoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/151 "2005-06-06T11:16:16Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Hey, I liked Bubba (somewhat), but he certainly did back down. Look at his health care plan and some of the other things he tried to do in his first term. He saw they weren’t going to fly and changed direction in midstream…and stole the Republicans thunder by repackaging their own programs and making them his (you could practically hear the Republican heads explodin in D.C 😛 ). And…it won him a second term IMO. Something that Democrats seem to be having a pretty hard doing the first time around lately (and before him). > -XT So you don’t want to debate rhetorical tone, but now instead wish to debate political maneuvering? All in the service of whether Howard Dean is screwing up as DNC chair? Please pick a goalpost and stick with it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/152 "2005-06-06T11:18:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’d be most comfortable at a flat $200, I think. Shall we agree that our bet’s doubled, other terms remaining the same? Uh-oh! We all remember that reluctance to bet equals a lack of certainty, right? Surely it follows that the amount of certainty is proportionally equal to the amount a person is willing to bet? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/153 "2005-06-06T13:28:45Z")
I suspect that Dean has already been told to S.T.F.U. behind closed doors after his latest remark. It remains to be seen if Biden and Edwards are the only Democrats to publically distance themselves from him. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/154 "2005-06-06T14:03:46Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Uh-oh! We all remember that reluctance to bet equals a lack of certainty, right? Surely it follows that the amount of certainty is proportionally equal to the amount a person is willing to bet? Okay, I’ll make the same bet with you. Deal? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/155 "2005-06-06T16:20:46Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Okay, I’ll make the same bet with you. Deal? It was pointed sarcasm, throwing the ridiculous equivalence between wagering and strength of personal belief back at **Bricker** , who initially proposed the relationship. I still, as a matter of personal principle, find the idea of wagering on elections unpalatable. I have tried and failed to explain this here before, so I have to accept that it will not be understood. I also don’t care if others choose to do so. Go ahead and rock out with your cock out for all it bears on me. Believe me, however, I have been tempted several times to violate that principle, what with the Brickey Shuffle still going strong seven months later. If I break, you’ll be the second on my list. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/156 "2005-06-08T03:58:52Z")
Why don’t you folks bet on when Dean’s head explodes from shooting his mouth off. It’s becoming a daily event now. How much more racially/religiously insensitive can the man get. Today’s quote: Republicans are “a pretty monolithic party. They all behave the same. They all look the same. It’s pretty much a white Christian party.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/157 "2005-06-08T04:25:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Why don’t you folks bet on when Dean’s head explodes from shooting his mouth off. It’s becoming a daily event now. How much more racially/religiously insensitive can the man get. Today’s quote: Republicans are “a pretty monolithic party. They all behave the same. They all look the same. It’s pretty much a white Christian party.” What’s wrong with that? It’s true isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/158 "2005-06-08T11:04:03Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What’s wrong with that? It’s true isn’t it? The problem with rhetoric like this is that it’s embarassingly easy to counter, and thus make Dean look like a fool. [It goes thusly.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/08/MNGVND590S1.DTL) > [@](#): > > Simi Valley Councilman Glenn Becerra, a staffer with former Republican Gov. Pete Wilson and a Bush appointee to the White House Commission on Presidential Scholars, said Tuesday he was far from amused by Dean’s suggestion that Republicans constitute "a white Christian party,’’ and he called the Democratic Party chairman "an embarrassment.’’ > > "I’m living proof that the (GOP) isn’t what Howard Dean is trying to describe,’’ Becerra said during a telephone interview. "It’s a sad day when Democrats don’t have any ideas to put forward and they have to resort to race politics. President Bush didn’t get 40 percent of the Hispanic vote (in 2004) because we’re a monolithic, white Christian party.’’ There will be lots of minority Republicans making similar comments in the next few days, and it’ll make great press. Expect some sort of mealy-mouthed apology from Dean, as these comments really aren’t defensible. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/159 "2005-06-08T11:42:18Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Uh-oh! We all remember that reluctance to bet equals a lack of certainty, right? Surely it follows that the amount of certainty is proportionally equal to the amount a person is willing to bet? This is my whole problem with betting as a way of backing up one’s statements. To a wealthy person, $200 is chump change. To a poor person, it’s the grocery money. It gives a great advantage to the wealthy. A dumb trap to fall into. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2005, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273/160 "2005-06-08T11:43:35Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > The problem with rhetoric like this is that it’s embarassingly easy to counter, and thus make Dean look like a fool. > > [It goes thusly.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/08/MNGVND590S1.DTL) > > There will be lots of minority Republicans making similar comments in the next few days, and it’ll make great press. Expect some sort of mealy-mouthed apology from Dean, as these comments really aren’t defensible. I do not believe there are in face a lot of minority Republicans. Those that exist will probably make the right noises to suit their white mas … er, compatriots. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-howard-dean-screwing-up-as-dnc-chairman/305273.md?page=9)