# Is Ice Dancing a Sport? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 4, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909 "2014-01-04T23:22:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/21 "2014-01-05T13:02:50Z")
> [@Kitten\_Mitten](#): > > I pretty much agree with this. To me a sport is something that athletes play that is competitive. And again, to me, this rules out curling. Why curling is in the Olympics as a sport is totally beyond me. No offense to curlers out there but many of the curlers are not in any kind of athletic shape and there is no athleticism about sweeping a darn broom or sliding on the ice while holding and pushing a rock. Rant over. For these type of definitions you have to get into defining what “athletic” means. I prefer to think of a sport as being something that requires a physical skill and is inherently competitive. “Inherently” because anything can be made competitive by seeing who can do the most/fastest, e.g. competitive basket weaving. And the result should be measurable. Ice dancing is not inherently competitive, nor is the result objectively measurable. So by my criteria, it is not a sport. Curling is, because it is inherently competitive (who can get the closest) and measurable. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/22 "2014-01-05T13:57:59Z")
If it requires the participant to wear make-up, it is not a sport. (e.g. sync swimming) If it requires the participant to wear costumes, it is not a sport. (e.g. ballroom dance) If points are awarded for style and presentation, it is not a sport. (e.g. figure skating) If it requires no significant physical effort or level of fitness, it is not a sport. (e.g. curling) ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/23 "2014-01-05T14:51:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If it requires the participant to wear make-up, it is not a sport. (e.g. sync swimming) > If it requires the participant to wear costumes, it is not a sport. (e.g. ballroom dance) > If points are awarded for style and presentation, it is not a sport. (e.g. figure skating) > If it requires no significant physical effort or level of fitness, it is not a sport. (e.g. curling) I’d concur with all of that. Those things listed are what I’d call competitive events, rather than sports. But it doesn’t mean that I necessarily think anything less of the achievements of those competing. ETA: I’m taking your first two criteria as a bit tongue-in-cheek, and the second two more seriously. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/24 "2014-01-05T15:26:40Z")
So football is not a sport since players have to wear costumes? I’m not sure makeup is required for sync swimming, just common practice. I’m not sure why they still have style points in ski jumping - they could easily go just by distance ( not sure how often a person with a shorter jump wins due to style points) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/25 "2014-01-05T15:43:13Z")
My personal definition is: “Any (theoretically) friendly contest, objectively scored, which, at its highest levels of competition, demands high levels of physical conditioning in order to be competitive.” Yeah, the definition of “sport” can mean any activity played for fun, but that’s not really how we use the word here in America. And, because this is America and we get dumb about stuff like this, we’ve also turned it into a value judgement. That’s why fans of NASCAR and ballroom dancing and chess get defensive when people say that those things aren’t “sports.” To me, it’s not a value judgement. Just a delineation between different types of activities. It has nothing to do with skill or talent; only with the nature of the competition. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/26 "2014-01-05T15:49:15Z")
I missed the edit window, but I wanted to add: At least attempted objectivity, at any rate. Boxing and wrestling, for example, are scored by judges who are _attempting_ objectivity, even though their interpretations of what’s happening may differ. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/27 "2014-01-05T16:25:35Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > So football is not a sport since players have to wear costumes? That depends, do you think football players put on all that gear to accentuate the length of their legs and impress the judges? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/28 "2014-01-05T16:30:03Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > Those things listed are what I’d call competitive events, rather than sports. But it doesn’t mean that I necessarily think anything less of the achievements of those competing. > > ETA: I’m taking your first two criteria as a bit tongue-in-cheek, and the second two more seriously. Agreed. None of the mentioned events interest me in the least but I would not try to claim that they are not achievements or don’t require skill or talent. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/29 "2014-01-05T16:33:28Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > The oldest player to win a golf major was 48. Sure, that’s older than top football (either type), baseball or rugby players, but indicates that a certain degree of athletic demandingness (?). > > Professional golfers frequently suffer injuries because of the physical demands, e.g Tiger Woods - knee, back. > > Old people play tennis. There are “champions” events for older players. Does that make what Nadal, Federer at al. play not a sport? I think 48 is way beyond any other sports’ oldest champion. When an NBA or NHL player is close to 40, they are usually a novelty and not near the top of their sport, let alone a champion. Team sports also lets you hide somewhat behind your teammates. While I don’t doubt that some athleticism is necessary for almost any physical activity, there’s a line to sports that I believe is drawn between what’s simply beneficial and what’s absolutely necessary. Being athletic helps in anything, that’s why in competitive events, many of the best are usually in good shape. I don’t doubt that Tiger Woods is athletic and has suffered injuries due to his intense game workouts, but he’s been beaten by the likes of muffin top Vijay Singh and man boobs Mickelson. As for tennis, I’d be more convinced if the older people play against Nadal and Federer. Hell, even Federer’s losing it. He’s not winning nearly all his games like he was before, the last 2 years he’s pretty much at winning only ever other time, which for most people is good but for him is bad. ---
**Author:** ![citizenzen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@citizenzen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/citizenzen)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/30 "2014-01-05T16:46:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > “Any (theoretically) friendly contest, objectively scored, which, at its highest levels of competition, demands high levels of physical conditioning in order to be competitive.” > > Yeah, the definition of “sport” can mean any activity played for fun … Agreed. Like most things there’s no clear dividing line between “sport” and “game”. Any game can become a sport and any sport can be played as a game. The difference comes down to intent. If you can walk away from a competition or exercise without any consequence coming from winning or losing, then it’s a game. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/31 "2014-01-05T16:55:16Z")
To me, the most jaw-dropping and beautiful Olympic event ever was the pairs ice dancing of Torvill and Dean in Sarajevo. That certainly took athletic ability. They received perfect scores from all of the judges. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/t2zbbN4OL98/hqdefault.jpg "Torvill & Dean - 1984 Olympics - Bolero - HQ") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98) The most screaming and excitement that I experienced was the famous hockey game between the USA and the USSR when we were compared to high school hockey players up against the best professional hockey players in the world. We won and went on to win the Gold Medal. Why shouldn’t both of these be considered sports? I don’t think “rough and tumble” is in the definition. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/32 "2014-01-05T17:19:48Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I think 48 is way beyond any other sports’ oldest champion. It’s interesting to look at the oldest winners in various sports. Here’s a few (in some cases, I could only find the oldest participant in the championship game/series, not necessarily the winner). Baseball World Series: 46 Superbowl: 2 days shy of 41 Stanley Cup: 47 World Cup final: 40 Olympic Track & Field Gold medal: 42 NBA winner: 43 A 48-year old golf champion doesn’t look too far removed. However, I would agree that in general golfers can play later because it i less physically demanding. Golfers tend to fade after 40 whereas in most of the others 30 is usually on the downward slope. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/33 "2014-01-05T17:58:01Z")
The oldest competitor in the London Olympics was a seventy one year old equestrian. > [@](#): > > [Japanese equestrian defies Father Time as the oldest competitor at London Olympics - Yahoo Sports](http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--japanese-equestrian-defies-father-time-as-oldest-competitor-at-london-olympics.html) > > LONDON – The oldest competitor at the 2012 Olympic Games has revealed the extraordinary sacrifices he has made in order to remain a medal contender well past retirement age. > > Hiroshi Hoketsu, who will represent Japan in the equestrian discipline of dressage at the age of 71, told Yahoo! Sports how chasing a slice of history and becoming the oldest Olympian in the last 92 years is the result of a fanatical commitment to the sport. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/34 "2014-01-05T21:31:01Z")
My definition: If you need to bathe after competing, it’s a sport. ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/35 "2014-01-05T21:47:31Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > …I’m not sure why they still have style points in ski jumping - they could easily go just by distance ( not sure how often a person with a shorter jump wins due to style points) > > Brian That’s something that’s always puzzled me. I would think that if you had the optimum style you would travel further. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/36 "2014-01-05T22:03:24Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If it requires no significant physical effort or level of fitness, it is not a sport. (e.g. curling) I find it curious that probably 99.5% of elite curlers are in good shape, if fitness isn’t a requirement of curling. That seems like a truly impossible random event. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/37 "2014-01-05T22:09:15Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ve always found that th best, most consistent definition of sport is > > - a contest of athletic skill > - played between two or more competitors > - with clear criteria by which a winner is determined > > By this definition ice dancing is a sport, provided it’s not totally fixed. People who follow **Revtim** ’s way of thinking might say: Not with a strict interpretation of your second condition. How would ice dancing be any different if it _weren’t_ between two or more competitors? I defer to [George Carlin](http://www.boredatuni.com/stuff.php?stuffId=11) as the expert on what is and is not a sport. [QUOTE=George Carlin] To my way of thinking there are really only three sports: baseball, basketball, and football. Everything else is either a game or an activity. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/38 "2014-01-05T22:19:31Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > People who follow **Revtim** ’s way of thinking might say: Not with a strict interpretation of your second condition. How would ice dancing be any different if it _weren’t_ between two or more competitors? There’s no competition. What would you stand to win? I realize that here I am, obviously, distinguishing “A sport” from a different sense of the word “sport” as it’s used in the sense of “general athletic endeavour.” When I go out for a run tomorrow, some would say I am engaging in “sport,” which is fine. I would say, however, that my going out running is not _A_ sport. If I were running in a race, then it would be _A_ sport. George Carlin is a comedian, so bear in mind, _what he said was a joke_. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/39 "2014-01-05T22:52:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > George Carlin is a comedian, so bear in mind, _what he said was a joke_. As opposed to SDMB posts, which are all deadly serious. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909/40 "2014-01-06T01:50:28Z")
IMO: If you are an elite player in an activity, and you are fat and out of shape, does not disqualify that activity from being “a sport”. I now several fit and ripped people who are absolute klutzes and cannot do the most basic skills in mainstream sports. I know a guy that runs several marathons per year. But despite being a popular kid in growing up, he cannot throw a football. He cannot dribble a basketball or even make a layup. He cannot catch a baseball. He is just a total klutz. But he can run and run long distances. SKILL is an important part of an activity being a SPORT. Golf is a sport. Curling is a sport. It does take skillfulness to master these sports. Personally I don’t like sports that require judges to determine a winner. Gymnastics, Sync Swimming, Diving, Figure Skating, Ice Dancing, and yes, even Amateur Boxing. But they are still sports. It take skill to perform them on a elite level T [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ice-dancing-a-sport/677909.md?page=3)