# Is ""I'm sorry that I offended you" a real apology? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2010, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709 "2010-04-20T03:24:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/21 "2010-04-20T14:14:53Z")
A more pertinent question, I think, is why people seem to think that “I’m sorry…” always indicates apology or acknowledgment of guilt. I just had this conversation with my husband last night. I asked him how work was and he indicated frustration and distress about it. I sincerely replied, “I’m sorry,” as in “I’m sorry that you had a bad day,” to which he replied, “It’s not your fault.” Well, I know it’s not my fault. Can’t I be sorry for you without you inferring I feel guilty about it? Sometimes, “I’m sorry” just means “that makes me sad.” Isn’t the root ‘sorrow’? In the case of “I’m sorry if I offended you,” I am expressing regret that what I said may have offended you, whether it did or not. If you want to get all pissy about the offense, that’s something else. Then, I maybe I’m regretting ever having a conversation with you. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/22 "2010-04-20T14:34:25Z")
“I’m sorry that I offended you” - depending on the delivery and sincerity, it could be a real apology. “I’m sorry that you were offended by what I said” - very rarely meant sincerely and therefore very rarely a real apology. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/23 "2010-04-20T14:37:44Z")
I’ve always believed that the verb “_offend_” is one of a very few that becomes more accurate in passive voice than in active voice. You can apologize for saying or doing something, if you believe it was wrong or inappropriate. But “offended” refers _not_ to your action, but to the other party’s _re_action, which isn’t yours to apologize for. So “I’m sorry I said your mother was ugly” is a good apology, while “I’m sorry you were offended when I said your mother was ugly” is not. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/24 "2010-04-20T14:46:22Z")
Perhaps a better way to say it if you were being sincere in taking responsibility would be to say Im sorry I was being offensive? Ie acknowledging responsibility for an act rather than the persons feelings. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/25 "2010-04-20T15:17:06Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > Perhaps a better way to say it if you were being sincere in taking responsibility would be to say Im sorry I was being offensive? Ie acknowledging responsibility for an act rather than the persons feelings. > > Otara But “being offensive” is still in the eye of the offendee. Context is important, of course, but I think any apology one offers should be for a _specific action_, not for a vague adjective that may or may not describe that action. For example, let’s say I loudly called a female acquaintance a c\*nt in front of her young children. Few would disagree that what I did was offensive. By way of apology, “I’m sorry I called you that. It was wrong, even more so where your kids could hear it,” specifically takes responsibility for my actions and communicates regret. But something like “I’m sorry I was being offensive toward you and the kids” still sounds waffly and weasely to me. On the other hand, if the offense was over something I consider innocuous – say, somebody with very puritan standards was offended that I went around all day with my top button undone – then “I’m sorry I didn’t button my shirt all the way up to my neck” would surely be insincere, while “I’m sorry I was being offensive by the way I dressed” places responsibility where it doesn’t belong. In such a case I don’t think I owe any apology at all. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/26 "2010-04-20T16:06:02Z")
Another vote for “I’m sorry I offended you” being a genuine apology. The speaker may have intended no offence but now realizes offence can reasonably be taken. “I’m sorry you were offended” _could_ be genuine too - as in “I had no wish to offend, did not believe I was offensive, even believe many other listeners would not have been offended, but value your friendship enough to accept that your own feelings are unfeigned and it will do me no harm to guard my tongue another time”. Context, if not everything, is certainly germane. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/27 "2010-04-20T16:12:57Z")
I’m sorry [sub]that your parents raised you to be such a humourless fuckstick[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/28 "2010-04-20T16:23:21Z")
I think it is real, maybe not whole-hearted but real. I would accept it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/29 "2010-04-20T17:50:34Z")
Thanks, everybody. The consensus seems to be that, all things being equal, it _could_ be genuine. I’ll treat it as such. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/30 "2010-04-20T18:04:40Z")
After reading everyone’s responses and arguments here, I have come to the conclusion that apologies for offense are extremely subjective and contextual. Maybe the bottom line is if it feels weaselly and insincere to you, it probably is. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/31 "2010-04-20T18:21:14Z")
I think it’s like apologizing if you open a door and hit someone: you didn’t do anything wrong, you couldn’t possibly know that they were on the other side, they have some culpability for standing right outside a door, but, still, you’d be a douche if you didn’t say 'whoops, I am sorry, I didn’t see you there", because at the end of the day your actions caused them pain, even if that pain was neither intentional nor forseeable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/32 "2010-04-20T19:24:20Z")
It’s the pronoun not the conjunction that determines the sincerity of the statement. _“I’m sorry if I offended you”_ vs _“I’m sorry that I offended you”_ - no major difference. The first statement is just different in that it’s acknowledging the possibility of offense rather than its certainty. _“I’m sorry that I offended you”_ vs _“I’m sorry that you were offended”_ - this is a significant difference. Now the statement is placing the responsibility for the offense on the person who heard the remark rather than the person who spoke it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/33 "2010-04-20T19:58:23Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I don’t believe that counts as an actual apology. By it, you aren’t the one in the wrong; the problem is very much put in the other person’s lap, and you don’t concede any kind of wrongness on your own part. Precisely! The fact that Mr. Touchy takes offense at something Mr. Clumsy said does not automatically mean Mr. Clumsy _ **is** _ wrong. > [@](#): > > The only way, as I see it, that an apology along the lines of the example works is it the “wrong” admitted includes the point that you were wrong to believe that what you said would not be offensive, or that it was offensive. Basically, the argument of ignorance - “I’m sorry that I didn’t realise how offended people would be” can be a real apology to me, because it concedes that you were wrong in some way. Specifically including that you haven’t done anything wrong just makes it, “Oh, I did everything perfectly. I’d prefer that you werent offended, and I think you are wrong to be offended, but it certainly isn’t my fault that you are.” Honestly, if this is your motivation, I don’t see how I could consider you to be sorry on a lot of things. You’re just apologising for practical reasons, not because you, yourself, actually believe yourself to be at fault. You’re apologising\* for them\*. Setting aside the extremeness of your characterizations… what the “apology” is at that point is actually an expression of sympathy for Mr. Touchy’s feelings, and a measure of sorrow that, without intention or desire, he arrived at those feelings by the way he received Mr. Clumsy’s communication. Again, it is pleasant, courteous and desirable for Mr. Clumsy to take note of Mr. Touchy’s feelings and in some way express sympathy and sorrow. But he does not have to “take responsibility” for Mr. Touchy’s reaction. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/34 "2010-04-20T20:53:29Z")
Very much context and sincerity dependent, IMHO. Offending someone over the course of events or words may well be the least worst choice, OTOH ‘I’m sorry I offended you, but…’ can just be another way fo saying ‘fuck you I’m right.’ It can be a genuine attempt to make forward progress without undoing the past, a nolo contendre if you will, or it can be bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Batfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Batfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batfish)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/35 "2010-04-20T21:05:14Z")
An apology has 3 parts. 1. An admission of wrongdoing. 2. An acknowledgement of the aggrieved party/parties. 3. An expression of remorse. The first may contain the disclaimer: “I didn’t mean any harm, yet harm was done.” ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/36 "2010-04-20T21:18:25Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Precisely! The fact that Mr. Touchy takes offense at something Mr. Clumsy said does not automatically mean Mr. Clumsy _ **is** _ wrong. Most certainly, but it also means that Mr. Clumsy is not offering a true apology. He doesn’t believe he’s in the wrong. > [@](#): > > Setting aside the extremeness of your characterizations… what the “apology” is at that point is actually an expression of sympathy for Mr. Touchy’s feelings, and a measure of sorrow that, without intention or desire, he arrived at those feelings by the way he received Mr. Clumsy’s communication. To the contrary, it expresses dismissal for Mr. Touchy’s feelings. “I’m sorry you feel that way” is essentially saying “I’d prefer that you didn’t feel that way, because you are wrong in feeling like that”. It is a measure of sorrow at Mr Touchy’s incorrectness, or a measure of sorrow at the inability for Mr. Touchy to see Mr. Clumsy’s correctness. It’s expressing disdain for those feelings, because you don’t believe they’re warranted. > [@](#): > > Again, it is pleasant, courteous and desirable for Mr. Clumsy to take note of Mr. Touchy’s feelings and in some way express sympathy and sorrow. But he does not have to “take responsibility” for Mr. Touchy’s reaction. Most certainly he does not. In such a situation, he should not apologise. I’m not saying “Even if you don’t believe you’re in the wrong, you should apologise as if you are”. I’m just saying that if you don’t believe there’s any problem on your end, then an apology is unnecessary (and untrue). It’s not pleasant, courteous, or desirable to say what amounts to “I’m sorry you’re wrong”. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/37 "2010-04-20T21:25:16Z")
I think Jane Austen says something on this form of apology in Sense and Sensibility: > [@](#): > > “A letter of proper submission!” repeated he; > “would they have me beg my mother’s pardon for Robert’s > ingratitude to HER, and breach of honour to ME?–I can > make no submission–I am grown neither humble nor > penitent by what has passed.–I am grown very happy; > but that would not interest.–I know of no submission > that IS proper for me to make.” > > “You may certainly ask to be forgiven,” said Elinor, > “because you have offended;–and I should think you > might NOW venture so far as to profess some concern > for having ever formed the engagement which drew on you > your mother’s anger.” > > He agreed that he might. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/38 "2010-04-20T21:30:31Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > I’m just saying that if you don’t believe there’s any problem on your end, then an apology is unnecessary (and untrue). It’s not pleasant, courteous, or desirable to say what amounts to “I’m sorry you’re wrong”. Well, I’m sorry you feel that way. 😃 I think you are characterizing it incorrectly. The thought behind it is absolutely not “I’m sorry you’re wrong”, because who feels sorry someone is wrong? They don’t. They feel sad, sorry, sympathetic, over the fact that someone else feels badly. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, we often say “I’m sorry” as an expression of sympathy for someone’s feelings when we have absolutely zero to do with why they are feeling that way, such as when someone says they feel sick, they had a shitty day, whatever. It’s a similar thing. I care enough to feel sad on your behalf for your unpleasant experience - that’s sincere. I’m just not going to take responsibility for the way you feel. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/39 "2010-04-20T22:04:28Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Well, I’m sorry you feel that way. 😃 Thanks! 😉 > [@](#): > > I think you are characterizing it incorrectly. The thought behind it is absolutely not “I’m sorry you’re wrong”, because who feels sorry someone is wrong? They don’t. They don’t? I think it’s certainly possible. Oftentimes with the “I’m sorry you’re offended” apology the motivation behind it is “Well, i’m not at all sorry, but for the sake of politeness i’ll pretend I am. I’d prefer you weren’t wrong”. And you get politicians where they feel the need to make an apology for the sake of their career, but not so much as to make an _actual_ apology. > [@](#): > > They feel sad, sorry, sympathetic, over the fact that someone else feels badly. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, we often say “I’m sorry” as an expression of sympathy for someone’s feelings when we have absolutely zero to do with why they are feeling that way, such as when someone says they feel sick, they had a shitty day, whatever. It’s a similar thing. I care enough to feel sad on your behalf for your unpleasant experience - that’s sincere. I’m just not going to take responsibility for the way you feel. But i’d say that’s a good example. You feel sorry for someone’s terrible day, because you’re sympathetic enough to prefer that they had a better one. And I’d say the difference lies in expectations - if you’re apologising to someone over an offense, their expectation often is an apology from you to them; if you’re apologising for a bad day someone has, they know you’re not behind it, or apologising for it. You’re simply expressing sympathy, as you say. But an offended person is expecting an apology, which you’re sort-of fulfilling without actually having to fulfil it. It’s sort of a sneaky way out. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709/40 "2010-04-20T23:07:04Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Thanks! 😉 > > They don’t? I think it’s certainly possible. Oftentimes with the “I’m sorry you’re offended” apology the motivation behind it is “Well, i’m not at all sorry, but for the sake of politeness i’ll pretend I am. I’d prefer you weren’t wrong”. And you get politicians where they feel the need to make an apology for the sake of their career, but not so much as to make an _actual_ apology. But i’d say that’s a good example. You feel sorry for someone’s terrible day, because you’re sympathetic enough to prefer that they had a better one. And I’d say the difference lies in expectations - if you’re apologising to someone over an offense, their expectation often is an apology from you to them; if you’re apologising for a bad day someone has, they know you’re not behind it, or apologising for it. You’re simply expressing sympathy, as you say. But an offended person is expecting an apology, which you’re sort-of fulfilling without actually having to fulfil it. It’s sort of a sneaky way out. Well, you’ve certainly nailed it: other people’s expectations. Mr. Clumsy doesn’t need to “sneak out” of living up to _ **other people’s expectations** _. He didn’t sign up for that, most of us don’t, and a whole lot of grief in this world could be completely avoided if we all got that message. Seriously - the degree to which interpersonal relations are damaged, destroyed and disrupted by Ms. YouShouldaKnown expecting Ms. ButIHadNoIdea to act differently is pretty major. And Ms. YouShouldaKnown is wrong to have those expectations in the first place. And my Numbers I Pulled From My Butt Meter says that 90% of the things people are offended about they’d be far happier letting go of, and recognizing that it’s not about them, so why stress anyway? Does it improve the quality of your life to be emotionally disturbed when someone says “He jewed me down”? You’d have a hard time convincing me that it does. An example from my own life. New friend/poker buddy. I invited him to my weekly poker game, back when I was still with my ex. I am a fat woman. My ex is a very thin man. I went to bed early and everyone else kept playing. I hear the next day that New Friend told a joke at the table after I went to bed, the details of which I dont’ know - what I do know is that the joke found its humor in a thin man with a fat woman. Now, most people would be offended by that. I could easily have been. But I wasn’t. What would be the point? I felt certain that it wasn’t intended to be harmful to me or my ex - the guy was just a clueless idiot who wasn’t thinking about his audience. Either he figured out at some point that his joke was tasteless, in which case he probably felt really stupid and embarrassed, or he didn’t. Why am I going to let it bother me either way? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-im-sorry-that-i-offended-you-a-real-apology/536709.md?page=3)