# Is Indian Gaming the Ultimate Hypocrisy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607 "2009-06-22T16:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/1 "2009-06-22T16:54:27Z")
When talk of changing the tax code to a national sales tax or a flat tax arises, the major objection, especially from the left, is that doing so would negatively impact the “poor.” However, the same lawmakers wholeheartedly support government sanctioning of state lotteries and indian gaming. One would have to have his/her head in the sand not to recognize and admit that lotteries and indian gaming are, in effect, a tax on the poor. IMHO, this represents hypocrisy at its worst. Publicly profess your concern for taxing the poor, but then support (socially questionable) activities to raise money for government coffers at the poor’s expense… ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/2 "2009-06-22T17:00:02Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > When talk of changing the tax code to a national sales tax or a flat tax arises, the major objection, especially from the left, is that doing so would negatively impact the “poor.” > > However, the same lawmakers wholeheartedly support government sanctioning of state lotteries and indian gaming. One would have to have his/her head in the sand not to recognize and admit that lotteries and indian gaming are, in effect, a tax on the poor. > > IMHO, this represents hypocrisy at its worst. Publicly profess your concern for taxing the poor, but then support (socially questionable) activities to raise money for government coffers at the poor’s expense.. I think you need to look up the definition of “ultimate”. Anyways, I’m sure they could find lots of wiggle room in the idea that gambling is voluntary, paying a tax isn’t. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![IAmNotSpartacus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@IAmNotSpartacus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IAmNotSpartacus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/3 "2009-06-22T17:00:12Z")
Rich people don’t gamble? See you in GD! ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/4 "2009-06-22T18:01:16Z")
Tax: No choice allowed in paying. Gambling: Big choice allowed in playing. Not at all similar. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/5 "2009-06-22T18:27:08Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Tax: No choice allowed in paying. > Gambling: Big choice allowed in playing. > > Not at all similar. But everyone knows that the allure of a quick buck impacts poor people more than it does rich people. It might be their own fault for doing so, but legalized gambling will definitely hit the poor in the pocketbook.. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/6 "2009-06-22T18:33:05Z")
True, and many liberals have pointed out the problem with gaming and lotteries. But lotteries are supported very strongly by the center and the right – the latter because it allows them to raise revenues without raising taxes – so the complaints are ignored. You’re starting with the false assumption that all those on the left don’t object to lotteries. As for Indian gaming, the law is quite clear: it’s up to the Indian tribe. None of the money goes to any state. So, ultimately, people on the left (or the right, for that matter) have no say in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/7 "2009-06-22T18:35:05Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > True, and many liberals have pointed out the problem with gaming and lotteries. But lotteries are supported very strongly by the center and the right – the latter because it allows them to raise revenues without raising taxes – so the complaints are ignored. You’re starting with the false assumption that all those on the left don’t object to lotteries. > > As for Indian gaming, the law is quite clear: it’s up to the Indian tribe. None of the money goes to any state. So, ultimately, people on the left (or the right, for that matter) have no say in the matter. But don’t a lot of conservatives say they care about families and preventing the dissipation that comes from gambling? So, I guess you could say the entrenched rightwing support for state-sanctioned gambling is the ultimate hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/8 "2009-06-22T18:47:39Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > …However, the same lawmakers wholeheartedly support government sanctioning of state lotteries and indian gaming… Haven’t been following the action in Texas? The lawmakers shut down all the indian gaming in the state as illegal. That was part of the scandal that brought down Jack Abramoff. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/9 "2009-06-22T18:53:34Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > When talk of changing the tax code to a national sales tax or a flat tax arises, the major objection, especially from the left, is that doing so would negatively impact the “poor.” > > However, the same lawmakers wholeheartedly support government sanctioning of state lotteries and indian gaming. One would have to have his/her head in the sand not to recognize and admit that lotteries and indian gaming are, in effect, a tax on the poor. Who are these “same lawmakers?” You aren’t talking about Representative Strawman? Because, see, most decisions on lotteries are made at the state level, and questions about flat tax or NST are dealt with in Washington. Odds are it isn’t literally the same politicians dealing with a state issue on one hand, and a federal issue on another. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/10 "2009-06-22T19:02:49Z")
Oh, and I should have added, in terms of a GQ answer, on the issue of ultimate hypocrisy: I think the Reverend Ted Haggard episode is pretty hard to beat. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/11 "2009-06-22T19:34:25Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > One would have to have his/her head in the sand not to recognize and admit that lotteries and indian gaming are, in effect, a tax on the poor. Your premise is wrong. Lotteries are not a tax on poor people. They’re a tax on people who don’t understand math (probability and statistics, mostly). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/12 "2009-06-22T19:39:49Z")
Here in NC the lottery was opposed by the far right and the far left. It’s the only issue I can ever recall they agreed on. It just passed by just a few votes and started in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/13 "2009-06-22T19:48:23Z")
Also, gambling doesn’t harm everybody who participates in it. There are people who gamble in moderation and get some entertainment value out of it. If they lose money, it’s not enough to seriously impact their or their families’ finances. Why should those people be deprived of the opportunity to gamble, just because some other people can’t manage to gamble in moderation? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/14 "2009-06-22T19:54:51Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Here in NC the lottery was opposed by the far right and the far left. It’s the only issue I can ever recall they agreed on. It just passed by just a few votes and started in 2006. It was that way in Missouri, too. The religious right HATED the idea and vigorously opposed it. The liberal left called gambling a “tax on the poor” and hated it. The educators who were supposed to benefit from it were split. And in the end it wasn’t “lawmakers” who legalized the lottery and gambling in Missouri – it was a constitutional issue voted on by the public. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/15 "2009-06-22T20:12:54Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > True, and many liberals have pointed out the problem with gaming and lotteries. But lotteries are supported very strongly by the center and the right. That is simply not true. Massachusetts is hardly a stronghold for the right to say the least yet it has some of the highest lottery ticket sales in the nation including scratch off tickets. Massachusetts would tax air if it could and you almost never hear liberals opposing lottery ticket sales even though the obviously poor clog up the lines in every convenience store and gas station in the state in hopes of winning big. The religious right opposes lotteries in general. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/16 "2009-06-22T20:17:12Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > When talk of changing the tax code to a national sales tax or a flat tax arises, the major objection, especially from the left, is that doing so would negatively impact the “poor.”. In both of these cases, it isn’t so much it would impact the poor, it that it would shift most of the tax burden currently on the rich to the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/17 "2009-06-22T20:40:36Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > …lotteries and indian gaming are, in effect, a tax on the poor. Lotteries and gambling are taxes on the mathematically inept. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/18 "2009-06-22T20:58:39Z")
Moving from GQ to Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/19 "2009-06-22T21:50:45Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > As for Indian gaming, the law is quite clear: it’s up to the Indian tribe. None of the money goes to any state. So, ultimately, people on the left (or the right, for that matter) have no say in the matter. The [Indian Gaming Regulatory Act](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act) gives states some limited ability to regulate Indian gambling in their borders. And a lot of states receive a portion of the revenue Indian casinos generate though an agreement with the tribes. In my old home town, there was a small casino and the county received something like 2-4% of the money the casino took in. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/20 "2009-06-23T00:42:55Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Your premise is wrong. > > Lotteries are not a tax on poor people. They’re a tax on people who don’t understand math (probability and statistics, mostly). You’re being too generous. It doesn’t require an understanding of the math involved to know that throwing half your disposible income at lottery tickets is a bad idea. They’re just stupid. There’s no hypocrisy here. Forced taxes are vastly different than voluntary stupidity. It’s quite easy to avoid the taxes related to playing the lottery. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607.md?page=2)