# Is Indian Gaming the Ultimate Hypocrisy **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607 "2009-06-22T16:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/21 "2009-06-23T05:49:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > As for Indian gaming, the law is quite clear: it’s up to the Indian tribe. None of the money goes to any state. Not true. Indian reservations have to get along with the States they occupy- they still need power, water, roads into, etc. So, States and Tribes often have agreements to control or split some of the gambling. CA is an example. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/22 "2009-06-23T16:06:25Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/23 "2009-06-23T16:25:52Z")
In Oregon, the lottery was approved though the initiative process rather than the legislature. The OP’s claim that the left supports gambling is without any merit as far as I can tell. If anything, the reverse is true. ETA: > [@](#): > > but the lottery has always been under fire from both the right and left flanks, as it is viewed as both an incentive to avoid hard work or a tax on the poor. Early Puritan religious leaders, modern-day Christian conservatives and liberal reformers and activists have all been staunch opponents. From [here](http://www.lotterypost.com/news/191979). ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/24 "2009-06-23T16:32:26Z")
Won’t someone think of the poor. We need to act to restrict their behavior now! For their own good of course! They can’t be trusted to make their own decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/25 "2009-06-23T17:07:00Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > Lotteries are not a tax on poor people. They’re a tax on people who don’t understand math (probability and statistics, mostly). Only if you play thinking that you’ll win ‘one of these days’. Many people play for fun and have no illusions as to the actual probability of winning. The mere **idea** that they might win is sufficient. And, here in the U.K., part of the price of the ticket goes to various good causes. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/26 "2009-06-23T17:14:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Only if you play thinking that you’ll win ‘one of these days’. Many people play for fun and have no illusions as to the actual probability of winning. The mere **idea** that they might win is sufficient. And, here in the U.K., part of the price of the ticket goes to various good causes. Lotteries pay for scholarships here in the US. If you are a resident of New Mexico you can go to college essentially for free at a state school with NM scholarship money. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/27 "2009-06-23T17:48:53Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > And, here in the U.K., part of the price of the ticket goes to various good causes. That’s how they got the state lottery in California. Part of the proceeds go to CA schools. They pushed it as benefiting the schools, therefore good. Of course, if schools were getting money from the lottery, legislators figured they didn’t have to fund them so much, so it was all a waste. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/28 "2009-06-23T18:49:36Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Only if you play thinking that you’ll win ‘one of these days’. Many people play for fun and have no illusions as to the actual probability of winning. The mere **idea** that they might win is sufficient. And, here in the U.K., part of the price of the ticket goes to various good causes. Well, yes. I don’t think anyone has a problem with the person who buys a ticket a week to daydream about what they might do with the winnings. But poor idiots in the US often spend a significant fraction of their income on lottery tickets. It’s like an investment strategy for morons. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/29 "2009-06-23T20:08:54Z")
For those responding to my “bad at math” comment, don’t get me wrong. I don’t care how other people spend their money unless it directly affects me. If you want to buy a lottery ticket or two every week, it won’t change my opinion of you one whit. But when I think of the downsides of the lottery, I think back to the woman who worked for me years ago who asked if I would tell her husband that paychecks were late this week because she had blown her _entire paycheck_ on lottery tickets and she didn’t want him to find out. I also detest the hypocrisy of states that run lotteries, but make other forms of gambling (like a friendly poker game with your buddies) illegal. > [@dangermom](#): > > That’s how they got the state lottery in California. Part of the proceeds go to CA schools. They pushed it as benefiting the schools, therefore good. Of course, if schools were getting money from the lottery, legislators figured they didn’t have to fund them so much, so it was all a waste. The big problem was that lottery funds to California schools are restricted to certain uses only. When the state started cutting general funds to schools, the schools ended up worse off than before the lottery, because they didn’t have that general money to use for whatever they needed. I remember this well, because I spent some time working with our local school district there in the early 90s trying to help them fix all the problems the lottery caused them. ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/30 "2009-06-23T23:49:55Z")
> [@Doug\_Bowe](#): > > Haven’t been following the action in Texas? The lawmakers shut down all the indian gaming in the state as illegal. That was part of the scandal that brought down Jack Abramoff. Um, I believe you have this backwards. Abramoff was working for the Indian gaming interests. The Indian gaming interests in Louisiana. Shutting down the gambling in Texas was to protect the casinos outside of Texas. If Texans can gamble in their home state, there’s no reason to make a trek down to the casinos in the state next door. The Abramoff scandal is about playing both sides against the middle–and collecting lobbying fees from all three–and says nothing about the principled stands any of the parties take on casino gambling or lotteries. Abramoff lobbied against both casinos and state lotteries, on behalf of the Tribal Council, because both would divert money away from the lucrative (local) Indian casinos. Then once he got the Texas casinos shut down, he signed on with the Texas tribe to try to get the decision reversed. The man has gigantic steel testicles. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/31 "2009-06-24T01:48:33Z")
> [@SanDiegoTim](#): > > When talk of changing the tax code to a national sales tax or a flat tax arises, the major objection, especially from the left, is that doing so would negatively impact the “poor.” > > However, the same lawmakers wholeheartedly support government sanctioning of state lotteries and indian gaming. One would have to have his/her head in the sand not to recognize and admit that lotteries and indian gaming are, in effect, a tax on the poor. > > IMHO, this represents hypocrisy at its worst. Publicly profess your concern for taxing the poor, but then support (socially questionable) activities to raise money for government coffers at the poor’s expense.. Certainly it’s not as hypocritical as the idea in general of Native Americans obtaining special protections on the one hand for having lost their lands and heritage by capitalist conquerors, and on the other hand indulging in and adopting those same tendencies where it benefits them. Casinos and native traditions hardly seem an appropriate mix–perhaps it’s simply proof that the Great Spirit is soothed by green salve just like the rest of the world. Looking for the “ultimate” Indian casino hypocrisy? In that case it’s hard to beat the Mashantucket Pequots… A probably fake tribe, given special privileges as Native Americans, now owners of the fabulously successful Foxwoods casino and some of the richest folk around. A spectacular success story, but somehow at hypocritical odds with the traditional Native American complaint that modern civilization has destroyed their sacred ancient ways… My personal observation, of course… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/32 "2009-06-24T02:26:57Z")
Yeah as far as hypocrisy’s go I have to say this one is not even in the top 1000. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/33 "2009-06-24T13:47:14Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Certainly it’s not as hypocritical as the idea in general of Native Americans obtaining special protections on the one hand for having lost their lands and heritage by capitalist conquerors, and on the other hand indulging in and adopting those same tendencies where it benefits them. Casinos and native traditions hardly seem an appropriate mix–perhaps it’s simply proof that the Great Spirit is soothed by green salve just like the rest of the world. Right, because Native American tribes are supposed to have remained stagnant for the last 2-3 centuries. How dare they **re** build economies, use electricity and gas-powered vehicles, have cable TV. Even worse, how dare some try to profit and live more comfortable, even prosperous lives. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/34 "2009-06-24T14:27:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not true. Indian reservations have to get along with the States they occupy- they still need power, water, roads into, etc. So, States and Tribes often have agreements to control or split some of the gambling. CA is an example. In MN, there was conflict between a city (Shakopee) and an Indian reservation bordering it. The reservation has a popular casino. Shakopee asked for part of the revenue (supposedly) because they had to maintain infrastructure leading to the reservation (there might be some truth to it…but in MN all levels of government are so fixated on raising taxes and getting more more more that I think mostly they saw money and wanted some) The reservation refused. Shakopee took them to court and lost. So… Shakopee drew up plans to convert all roads leading to the reservation into toll roads :D. They came to an agreement. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/35 "2009-06-24T14:31:00Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Won’t someone think of the poor. We need to act to restrict their behavior now! For their own good of course! They can’t be trusted to make their own decisions. Don’t forget that people are stupid. (Poor and rich alike, but only the rich can afford lobbyists.) ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/36 "2009-06-24T23:53:02Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Right, because Native American tribes are supposed to have remained stagnant for the last 2-3 centuries. How dare they **re** build economies, use electricity and gas-powered vehicles, have cable TV. Even worse, how dare some try to profit and live more comfortable, even prosperous lives. You’ve missed the point; it’s quite the opposite. They should do all of those things and more to bring themselves out of the dark ages and get with the program of modern civilization. And while they’re at it, give up on the Ancient Ways. To try and do both is what’s hypocritical. If Native Americans–even the fake ones–just wanna be good capitalists and consumers, I say have at it. Get your luxury SUVs, lay out the roads, buildings and parking lots on the prairie and forests, and let’s git 'er paved. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607/37 "2009-06-26T17:22:50Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > You’ve missed the point; it’s quite the opposite. > > They should do all of those things and more to bring themselves out of the dark ages and get with the program of modern civilization. > > And while they’re at it, give up on the Ancient Ways. To try and do both is what’s hypocritical. If Native Americans–even the fake ones–just wanna be good capitalists and consumers, I say have at it. Get your luxury SUVs, lay out the roads, buildings and parking lots on the prairie and forests, and let’s git 'er paved. Is that the dark ages of crushing poverty on the non-casino reservations? I missing the point here big time. And what about Ancient Ways? Should the Jews and Muslims also embrace pork, the Catholics give up that whole lent thing, the Sikhs start cutting their hair? As an atheist, I find all of these things rather foolish, but that is what you are asking when you say “give up the Ancient Ways”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-indian-gaming-the-ultimate-hypocrisy/500607.md?page=1)