# Is Iran a republic, a dictatorship, or something in between? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 23, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725 "2008-01-23T22:18:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/1 "2008-01-23T22:18:22Z")
In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=450576) on “Islamofascism,” I pointed out, at post #10, something that appeared to me fairly inarguable: That theocracy is not necessarily an inherently totalitarian form of government, because neither Iran nor Saudi Arabia are totalitarian states. But **FinnAgain** argues the contrary, and also contradicts my assertions – which I thought were fairly common and noncontroversial knowledge – that Iran at least has a thriving civil society independent of the state, and that Iranian elections, while not entirely free (the Council of Guardians gets to strike any candidate off the ballot), are still not total shams like elections were in Hussein’s Iraq. I think Iran, at present, can better be likened to Mexico as it was for most of the 20th Century – a one-party state, but not a dictatorship, totalitarian, military or otherwise. Certainly Iran is more democratic, although probably less libertarian, now than it was under the Shah. Does anyone have a different view? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/2 "2008-01-23T22:25:51Z")
Sort of a Republic, with veto power given to the Islamic Supreme council. So a Theocratic Republic would be more appropriate. It’s not a dictatorship. Both are Totalitarian states however. Saudi Arabia being a religious monarchy. The hallmark of Totalitarianism is whether or not you can deviate from the ruling faction, which in neither state you can do. So both are Totalitarian. Saudi Arabia as a Monarchy could be considered a Dictatorship. A one party state, by definition is totalitarian. One party is in TOTAL control. Totalitarian and Dictatorship are not synonyms though they are often seen together. Ok, one last thing. Iran under the Shah WAS a Dictatorship, and was probably less free than it is today. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/3 "2008-01-23T22:53:34Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] The hallmark of Totalitarianism is whether or not you can deviate from the ruling faction . . . [/quote] No, the hallmark of [totalitarianism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarian) is that the state controls **everything.** The old Inca Empire, where there was no commerce of any kind and all produce was collected and distributed by government officials, was a (fairly benevolent) totalitarian state. The old Chinese Empire was not, even though criticizing the emperor could get you and your entire family put to death. The medieval Islamic Caliphate was not a totalitarian state; neither is contemporary Saudi Arabia (it’s really more like a family business owned by the Sauds). [QUOTE=mswas] A one party state, by definition is totalitarian. [/quote] Mexico was never totalitarian, even back when there was no realistic chance of anyone beating the PRI. [QUOTE=mswas] Iran under the Shah WAS a Dictatorship, and was probably less free than it is today. [/QUOTE] Depends on what form of “freedom” you value most, I guess. SAVAK cracked down hard on political dissent but never tried to arrest people for adultery or blasphemy, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/4 "2008-01-23T23:06:29Z")
It calls itself an “Islamic Republic”, as in the [Islamic Republic of Iran](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html#Govt). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/5 "2008-01-23T23:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] It calls itself an “Islamic Republic”, as in the [Islamic Republic of Iran](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html#Govt). [/QUOTE] And NK calls itself the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. What’s in a name? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/6 "2008-01-23T23:27:17Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Depends on what form of “freedom” you value most, I guess. SAVAK cracked down hard on political dissent but never tried to arrest people for adultery or blasphemy, AFAIK. [/QUOTE] And the current government of Iran does both. You might want to read this article, from 2000, which looks at the idea of Iran and civil society: > **[News Archives](https://www.findarticles.com/news/)** > > Explore the News Articles featuring Technology, Business, Entertainment, and Science & Health topics. Access reports, insights, and stories. and looks at the fundimental disconnect between the Iranian people, who want some sort of civil society, and the government, which cracks down on the ideas of civil society and public participation in government. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/7 "2008-01-23T23:34:09Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] And NK calls itself the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. What’s in a name? [/QUOTE] You’re asking what’s in a name, when your whole topic is asking what to call it? And for whatever reason, you think that what they call themselves is discredited because of what North Korea calls itself? Even when it makes perfect sense? It’s Islamic. It’s a Republic. It’s an Islamic Republic. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/8 "2008-01-23T23:43:55Z")
Well, yeah, it’s definately a republic. If you aren’t ruled by a king, queen, duke, etc., you’re a republic. It’s also a dictatorship…the people don’t really have civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/9 "2008-01-23T23:51:32Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Well, yeah, it’s definately a republic. If you aren’t ruled by a king, queen, duke, etc., you’re a republic. It’s also a dictatorship…the people don’t really have civil rights. [/QUOTE] True, but the dictatorship part is just an extension of the officially Islamic part, specifically Hujjatiyyah Shiism. Ahmadinejad sees himself as the “Mahdi-Messiah” (or Hidden Imam), and his closest advisor is Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah-Yazdi, who once famously declared, “If anyone tells you their own interpretation of Islam, punch them in the mouth”. [http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/09/who\_is\_mahmoud\_ahmadinejad.html](http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/09/who_is_mahmoud_ahmadinejad.html) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/10 "2008-01-23T23:58:29Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] You’re asking what’s in a name, when your whole topic is asking what to call it? And for whatever reason, you think that what they call themselves is discredited because of what North Korea calls itself? Even when it makes perfect sense? It’s Islamic. It’s a Republic. It’s an Islamic Republic. [/QUOTE] I think **BG** meant that it doesn’t really matter what they call themselves, since that doesn’t make it true. Just as North Korea calls itself democratic but is manifestly not, so too is Iran calling itself a republic not proof of it actually being one. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/11 "2008-01-24T00:19:38Z")
Iran could be considered a form of elective monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/12 "2008-01-24T00:29:22Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] True, but the dictatorship part is just an extension of the officially Islamic part, specifically Hujjatiyyah Shiism. Ahmadinejad sees himself as the “Mahdi-Messiah” (or Hidden Imam), and his closest advisor is Ayatollah Mohammad Taghi Mesbah-Yazdi, who once famously declared, “If anyone tells you their own interpretation of Islam, punch them in the mouth”. [http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/09/who\_is\_mahmoud\_ahmadinejad.html](http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/09/who_is_mahmoud_ahmadinejad.html) [/QUOTE] Umm, I’ve never heard that claim before. I’ve heard that Ahmadinejad says he knows the Mahdi, not that he IS the Mahdi. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/13 "2008-01-24T00:34:19Z")
It’s not an elective monarchy or any sort of monarchy, because there isn’t a king. The concept of an elective monarchy isn’t contradictory, plenty of monarchies used to be elected rather than inherited, albeit by the nobility rather than the people. And Ahmadinejad might be the president, but he’s not the supreme ruler of Iran, he is answerable to the council of imams. Iran can’t really be considered a dictatorship, since dictatorship requires a dictator. It is an authoritarian state ruled by an oligarchy of religious leaders. Similar arrangements have happened in Europe ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/14 "2008-01-24T00:45:58Z")
It’s a country is deep doo-doo, that’s what it is. Iran lost _huge_ numbers of young men & women in the Iran Iraq War (22 September 1980–20 August 1988). 8 years of Total War. Now, it has a decent youth population again, & their economy needs them. Badly. But they are getting discontent with the Imams. And, because they are needed, the Government is reluctant to crack down. The kids could emigrate, after all. Change is in the wind. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/15 "2008-01-24T01:13:43Z")
Iran is an occupied state. We’ll only find out what kind of government it has when we get our boot off its neck. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/16 "2008-01-24T01:14:43Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] The kids could emigrate, after all. [/QUOTE] Could they? The old USSR (definitely a totalitarian state) generally did not allow people to emigrate. Neither does Cuba nor NK, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/17 "2008-01-24T01:15:50Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] Iran is an occupied state. We’ll only find out what kind of government it has when we get our boot off its neck. [/QUOTE] 😕 Have you confused “n” with “q” here? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/18 "2008-01-24T01:22:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] 😕 Have you confused “n” with “q” here? [/QUOTE] I sure did. [Emily Litella]Never mind.[/Emily Litella] To answer your question, a relgious dictatorship at present. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/19 "2008-01-24T01:30:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Could they? The old USSR (definitely a totalitarian state) generally did not allow people to emigrate. Neither does Cuba nor NK, AFAIK. [/QUOTE] Pakistani border–rivers & lots of trade. Easy sneak. Western border–several nations, hill tribes unsympathetic. South–ocean. Harder, but not impossible. North/russian–very hard. ---
**Author:** ![Aquila\_Be](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@Aquila\_Be](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquila_Be)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725/20 "2008-01-24T01:30:30Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=450576) on “Islamofascism,” I pointed out, at post #10, something that appeared to me fairly inarguable: That theocracy is not necessarily an inherently totalitarian form of government, because neither Iran nor Saudi Arabia are totalitarian states. [/QUOTE] According to the US Department of State, [Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2005](http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61688.htm) Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor March 8, 2006 > [@](#): > > The Islamic Republic of Iran,\* with a population of approximately 68 million, is a constitutional, theocratic republic in which Shi’a Muslim clergy dominate the key power structures. Article four of the constitution states that “All laws and regulations…shall be based on Islamic principles.” Government legitimacy is based on the twin pillars of popular sovereignty (Article Six) and the rule of the Supreme Jurisconsulate (Article Five). On this basis Iran complies with the requirements of the [Cairo Declaration on Human Rights in Islam 1990](http://www.religlaw.org/interdocs/docs/cairohrislam1990.htm) but would not comply in any meaningful way with the [United Nations Declaration on Human Rights 1948.](http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html) Under the current set up in Iran: > [@](#): > > An unelected 12-member council of guardians reviewed all legislation passed by the majles for adherence to Islamic and constitutional principles and also screened presidential and majles candidates for eligibility. Prior to the June presidential elections, the guardian council excluded all but 8 candidates of the 1,014 who registered. From the State Department report: > [@](#): > > The following human rights problems were reported: > • significant restriction of the right of citizens to change their government > • summary executions, including of minors > • disappearances > • torture and severe punishments such as amputations and flogging > • violence by vigilante groups with ties to the government > • poor prison conditions > • arbitrary arrest and detention, including prolonged solitary confinement > • lack of judicial independence > • lack of fair public trials, including lack of due process and access to counsel > • political prisoners and detainees > • excessive government violence in Kurdish areas > • substantial increase in violence from unknown groups in an Arab region of the country > • severe restrictions on civil liberties–speech, press, assembly, association, movement, and privacy > • severe restrictions on freedom of religion > • official corruption > • lack of government transparency > • violence and legal and societal discrimination against women, ethnic and religious minorities, and homosexuals > • trafficking in persons > • incitement to anti-Semitism > • severe restriction of workers’ rights, including freedom of association and the right to organize and bargain collectively > • child labor In the final analysis, it doesn’t matter what a country decides to name itself. Actions speak louder than words. You would need to read the whole report to get the full flavour. In my view, Iran’s current government is a tyranny, with the greatest share of oppression and discrimination falling on the non-Shiite, non-Muslim and non-male sectors of the population. From the point of view of minorities who are persecuted in matters great and small under the current “legal” framework the question of whether Iran is or is not “totalitarian” is of secondary importance. Saudi Arabia is, in several ways, slightly worse than Iran. However, only the wilfully blind could regard either regime as a shining beacon to help guide the future progress of civilisation. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iran-a-republic-a-dictatorship-or-something-in-between/434725.md?page=2)