# Is Iraqi embassy sign we are staying.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082 "2007-01-15T17:08:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/21 "2007-01-16T15:47:50Z")
Look, Gonzomax, it’s pretty simple. Yes, this was planned as a viceroyal palace, where the Americans who ran Iraq would live and work. Remember back in 2002 when we were going to kick ass, take charge, and install Chalabi as our tame strongman? This would have been the place Chalabi took orders from. Now, of course, that “plan” is in tatters, to the extent it existed at all. But to cancel construction of the viceroyal palace would be to admit that we’re bugging out. Since according to Bush we’re staying until Iraq is a liberal democracy, we keep building the palace. The palace’s construction will be cancelled when we get a president who plans on abandoning Iraq. Sure, it’s expensive to build an gigantic embassy complex only to abandon it to the Shiite militias or whoever, but what’s more important, a few billion dollars, or preventing Bush from losing face? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/22 "2007-01-16T16:08:12Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Why? That is one Vietnam alalogy that doesn’t make any sense, except as a cheap shot. It’s highly unlikely we’ll be chased out of Iraq. In almost any conceivable outcome, we’re still going to have diplomatic relations with the government of Iraq even when our combat troops are withdrawn. [/QUOTE] Boy, talk about your quotes that could turn around to bite you in the ass. Yes, the U.S. IS going to be chased out, though admittedly not in quite as dramatic a way as 1975. And I wouldn’t bet the house on what sort of government will be left behind. There’s a ferocious civil war yet to be fought and who the hell knows what will come out of that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/23 "2007-01-16T16:27:49Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Boy, talk about your quotes that could turn around to bite you in the ass. [/quote] Wanna bet? > [@](#): > > Yes, the U.S. IS going to be chased out, though admittedly not in quite as dramatic a way as 1975. Oh, I guess you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/24 "2007-01-16T16:49:42Z")
But we weren’t “chased out” of Vietnam either, in the sense that our military units were being defeated in battle and retreating and we had to withdraw them or they’d be killed or captured. We could have stayed in Vietnam indefinately as long as were were willing to accept the steady casualties and monetary costs that come even if you win every battle. The trouble was, it wasn’t worth it to stay even though we “won” just about every military engagement. The North never really invaded the South until after American troops were withdrawn. So our withdrawl from Iraq will be similar. Our troops aren’t going to be routed on the battlefield. We just won’t see the point of keeping them there to get shot at when there’s no compelling reason for them to stay. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/25 "2007-01-16T17:10:17Z")
Pretty much. I doubt the embassy will factor in greatly in our staying or going…nor is it any kind of sign of anything except optimism on Bush’s part. I certainly don’t see how its a factor on the military side of the equation -XT ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/26 "2007-01-16T20:16:26Z")
I got it. We pull back all our troops into the compound. It has 16 thick foot walls. Then we wait it out while the Iraqis kill each other. Once some resolution is achieved we come back out and mop up. it is a brilliant plan. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/27 "2007-01-16T22:37:17Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] I got it. We pull back all our troops into the compound. It has 16 thick foot walls. Then we wait it out while the Iraqis kill each other. Once some resolution is achieved we come back out and mop up. it is a brilliant plan. [/QUOTE] Normally if someone said this, I would assume it was tongue in cheek (despite the fact there was no smiley). With you however I can only HOPE you were kidding here. :dubious: 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/28 "2007-01-16T23:16:56Z")
Of course. but thanks for the shot. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2007, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/29 "2007-01-16T23:18:19Z")
More than welcome old boy. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/30 "2007-01-17T00:09:56Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Pretty much. I doubt the embassy will factor in greatly in our staying or going…nor is it any kind of sign of anything except optimism on Bush’s part. [/QUOTE] Assuming we will need such a huge, fortified edifice to safely maintain a diplomatic presence in Baghdad is **pessimism,** not optimism. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/31 "2007-01-17T00:16:20Z")
I disagree, but conceed that YMMV. -XT ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/32 "2007-01-17T00:18:36Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Adding more troops = being chased out? Thanks for clearing that up for us! 🙂 [/QUOTE] \*That \* from a guy who complains about “cheap shots”? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/33 "2007-01-17T23:21:51Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] I disagree, but conceed that YMMV. -XT [/QUOTE] Put another way: It is pessimism to assume we will need such a huge, fortified embassy for diplomatic purposes. It is optimism to assume (as the Admin probably is assuming) that it will ever be useful for any **other** purposes. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/34 "2007-01-17T23:42:20Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] \*That \* from a guy who complains about “cheap shots”? :dubious: [/QUOTE] You bet, since we are demostrably not being chased out. Unless, of course, you define “one side is fightin back” as being chased out. In that case, we (and every other nation) were “chased out” everytime we went to war, and that term ceases to have any operative meaning. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/35 "2007-01-17T23:46:09Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] You bet, since we are demostrably not being chased out. Unless, of course, you define “one side is fightin back” as being chased out. In that case, we (and every other nation) were “chased out” everytime we went to war, and that term ceases to have any operative meaning. [/QUOTE] That would make sense if we weren’t **losing.** And, yes, in this particular situation, running in place = losing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/36 "2007-01-17T23:49:58Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] That would make sense if we weren’t **losing.** [/QUOTE] No, it wouldn’t. And it’s certainly disputable whether we’re “losing” or not. I wouldn’t say that we are, but it’s pretty meaningless anyway. One side will either win or lose, and that’s all that matters in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/37 "2007-01-18T00:02:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No, it wouldn’t. And it’s certainly disputable whether we’re “losing” or not. I wouldn’t say that we are… [/QUOTE] President admits Iraq “maybe a slow failure” [on the NewsHour last night:](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june07/bush_01-16.html) > [@](#): > > MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, do you have a feeling of personal failure about Iraq right now? > > PRESIDENT BUSH: I’m frustrated at times about Iraq because I understand the consequences of failure. I want the Iraqis to succeed for our own sake. This is a war; part of a broader war, and that if we fail in Iraq, there is a better likelihood that the enemy comes and hurts us here. And so, I am frustrated with the progress. If you were to take it and put me in an opinion poll and said do I approve of Iraq, I’d be one of those that said, no, I don’t approve of what’s taking place in Iraq. On the other hand, I do believe we can succeed. Look, I had a choice to make, Jim, and that is - one - do what we’re doing. And one could define that maybe a slow failure. Secondly, withdraw out of Baghdad and hope for the best. I would think that would be expedited failure. And thirdly is to help this Iraqi government with additional forces - help them do what they need to do, which is to provide security in Baghdad. If Bush is toying with the possibility of failure, I think the rest of us can be pretty sure that’s what we have here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/38 "2007-01-18T00:33:35Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] You bet, since we are demostrably not being chased out. [/quote] As evidenced by _what_, exactly? > [@](#): > > Unless, of course, you define “one side is fightin back” as being chased out. :rolleyes: Don’t be petulant. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2007, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/39 "2007-01-18T03:17:56Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] As evidenced by _what_, exactly? [/quote] You’re the one who claimed we’re being chased out. What evidence do you have? I already gave you mine-- we’re adding more troops, not taking them out. > [@](#): > > :rolleyes: Don’t be petulant. You’re funny, **Elvis**! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082/40 "2007-01-20T15:51:54Z")
We are not leaving . We are escalating. We have two aircraft carriers in gulf near Iran. Long way to go for a training exercise. How far the American Militants will go I do not know. But nothing will surprise me. There is speculation from good sources that Bush and Israel will bomb the hell out of Iran soon. God I hope not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-iraqi-embassy-sign-we-are-staying/388082.md?page=3)