# Is Ireland still sorry that Hitler is dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 24, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060 "2009-07-24T00:00:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/21 "2009-07-26T08:29:22Z")
It must also be remembered that Eire gave a safe haven to Nazis fleeing justice at the end of WW2 while refusing to accept Jewish children refugees because “They wouldn’t fit in”. The latter was all the more unpleasant because the Irish official(a minister?) responsible for turning them away told the people hoping to resettle the children that he was doing everything in his power to push it through, when he had in fact already made his mind up that there was no way he was going to let it happen. As to the condolencies being offered to piss off the Brits wouldn’t it also have pissed of the Americans who had also taken heavy losses in the war,plus all the nations who had been occupied by the Germans? Not to mention the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/22 "2009-07-26T10:06:12Z")
On the other hand I have read that MI5 and certain members of the Irish Intelligence Bureau had a close working relationship and exchanged data on German spies operating in the Republic ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/23 "2009-07-26T10:06:25Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > It must also be remembered that Eire gave a safe haven to Nazis fleeing justice at the end of WW2. We’ve been through this before - this is at best an exaggeration and is extremely misleading as stated. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/24 "2009-07-26T11:22:30Z")
> [@Rayne\_Man](#): > > On the other hand I have read that MI5 and certain members of the Irish Intelligence Bureau had a close working relationship and exchanged data on German spies operating in the Republic Due to Ultra intercepts MI5 had turned all of the German agents operating in the U.K and was using them as double agents so it is quite likely that they were doing the same thing with German agents assigned to Ireland. Ref \*\*Hibernicus \*\*s post,yes this subject has been covered before, and no, its no exaggeration. Its as true now as it was when previously discussed,no matter how much of a bad taste it leaves in the mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/25 "2009-07-26T11:36:20Z")
The co-operation of the British and Irish intelligence agencies crops up several times in _The Guy Liddell Diaries_. He was MI5’s Director of Counter-Espionage in World War II. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/26 "2009-07-26T14:44:35Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Heck, here in the USA, we even sent high government officials to Japan for the funeral of the Emperor, despite a pretty major war between our countries when he attacked us sneakily. (Personally, I think he was a war criminal, and we should have sent some survivors of the Bataan Death March as our official representatives at his funeral. But we better go to the Pit if we want to discuss that more.) You’re aware that at the time of the man’s death, he was the emperor (absolutely powerless one at that) of an allied nation of the United States and that it was the United States occupation government that kept him in that office at the end of the war, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/27 "2009-07-26T18:25:15Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The United States Government was busy muttering very loud about “Irish cowardice” and “Irish Betrayal” well before the US went to war. So very very very unlikley. That’s one possibility; I don’t think it likely. Her Majesty’s government approached ireland first and that was an issue, and probably THE issues. > [@](#): > > Probably cost Ireland in the long run, the Marshal plan would have helped what was the poorest nation in W Europe. Unlikely; Ireland would not have been particularly damaged by the war nor in need of rebuilding. Any funds or assistance it could have gotten would likely have been trivial. > [@](#): > > Finally; its not “English” its the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. England has not been around as a political entity since 1707. One day, people will finally realize that I know the difference and that I mean what I say every time I say it. It was the English that dominate Britain and the English whom the Irish generally despised. It sure as hell wasn’t the great nonexistent hatred of the Welsh that kept Ireland out of the war. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/28 "2009-07-26T18:48:08Z")
“Her” Majesty? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/29 "2009-07-26T19:02:35Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > “Her” Majesty? :dubious: Bah, force of habit. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/30 "2009-07-26T20:56:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > OTH, Irish neutrality very nearly cost the allies the Battle of the Atlantic since the Irish ports on the Atlantic coast and airbases were off limits. Coastal Command were able to use RAF Castle Archdale and other surrounding airfields to cover the “Atlantic Gap” quite nicely. It was thanks to a secret agreement between the British and Irish governments that allowed for bombers to fly over Donegal and out over the Atlantic. > [@AK84](#): > > I think one more convoy getting popped and the British would have said “alright thats enough”, and invaded. Hitler started the war too early, his jet bombers/fighters and longer ranged U-Boats could have wreaked enough havoc to cripple Britain, but didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/31 "2009-07-26T22:11:47Z")
De Valera’s government affected a studied neutrality and claimed that their stance would win them the admiration of nations around the world. If they truly believed this then it was wilful self-deception - refusing to recognise that they were getting a free ride in the wagon that Britain and America were pushing. While DeV’s attitude is difficult to decipher some in the government such as Frank Aitken and Joseph Walsh actively hoped for German victory, or at least a negotiated peace that would leave Britain weakened. DeV’s gesture was, in part, calculated to annoy the American Minister, Gray, for whom he had by this time conceived an intense dislike. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/32 "2009-07-26T23:38:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > OTH, Irish neutrality very nearly cost the allies the Battle of the Atlantic since the Irish ports on the Atlantic coast and airbases were off limits I don’t see this. Most of the convoys went through the North Atlantic, and Ireland is to the south of Britain. The Shetland islands, Iceland, & Greenland were all more important bases than Ireland would have been. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/33 "2009-07-26T23:41:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You’re aware that at the time of the man’s death, he was the emperor (absolutely powerless one at that) of an allied nation of the United States and that it was the United States occupation government that kept him in that office at the end of the war, aren’t you? Yes, I’m aware of it. I just think his death should have occurred much earlier, during or just after the countries were at war. And that keeping him in office is yet another thing that Douglas MacArthur f’ed up. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/34 "2009-07-26T23:51:03Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I don’t see this. Most of the convoys went through the North Atlantic, and Ireland is to the south of Britain. The Shetland islands, Iceland, & Greenland were all more important bases than Ireland would have been. Believe it. All of those were airbases, but they also mostly sucked (my Great-Uncle was stationed in Iceland). They didn’t get out much. There was a critical patch of sea that the convoys went through, and the U-boats knew no planes could back them up in that particular region. That was the prime hunting ground. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/35 "2009-07-26T23:55:08Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Yes, I’m aware of it. > > I just think his death should have occurred much earlier, during or just after the countries were at war. And that keeping him in office is yet another thing that Douglas MacArthur f’ed up. Oh, darn, missed this. I actually researched this (my work wasn’t publish-quality). Basically, Americans made a choice to look forward and not back; Arthur figured that it would look like petty vengeance and that the Emperor could be much better used helping America. It may not have been justice, but it was effective. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/36 "2009-07-27T01:04:45Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Yes, I’m aware of it. > > I just think his death should have occurred much earlier, during or just after the countries were at war. And that keeping him in office is yet another thing that Douglas MacArthur f’ed up. Ah, so you think the emperor even had power before the end of the war. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/37 "2009-07-27T01:22:37Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > It must also be remembered that Eire gave a safe haven to Nazis fleeing justice at the end of WW2 Cite? Several nazi’s set up home in Ireland but as far as I’m aware we weren’t aware that they were nazi’s at the time. As an aside, we have a statue to a man who allegedly tried to sell out Ireland to the Germans. AFAIK the plan was to land troops in Ireland and invade Britain from both sides. The head got lopped off a while ago, but we’re putting it back on ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/38 "2009-07-27T01:41:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The United States Government was busy muttering very loud about “Irish cowardice” and “Irish Betrayal” well before the US went to war. So very very very unlikley. > > As it is, a lot of it seems to have been DeVelera’s own decision, I think if say Lemass had been the PM at the time, he would have agreed. Probably cost Ireland in the long run, the Marshal plan would have helped what was the poorest nation in W Europe. Ireland was not, by a long shot, the “poorest nation in Europe” at the time. And, in any event, Ireland _did_ benefit from Marshall Aid, which was offered without regard to belligerent status in the war. Regardelss of who had been Taoiseach, I don;t think there was never any prospect of Ireland fighting alongside the UK. Bear in mind that in 1939 it was less than twenty years since the War of Independence. The political and civil establishment in Ireland consisted largely of men who had been active in that war, and popular memories of the Black-and-Tans were very much alive. A large section of Irish opinion, and by no means an extremist one, would have found fighting “for the British” unthinkable, and this would not have been founded on any kind of sympathy for Naziism. If the US government was muttering about “Irish betrayal” I cannot imagine who they thought the Irish were betraying. The US itself remained neutral for as along as it could. I dare say if Japan had attacked Ireland, and Germany had declared war on Ireland, then Ireland would have fought on the allied side, just as the US did, but the event never arose. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/39 "2009-07-27T01:47:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Finally; its not “English” its the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. . Puhleeze. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060/40 "2009-07-27T05:06:38Z")
Here’s a couple of links I dug up from the Chicago Tribune Archives [Ireland And Hitler](http://dpimi.com/sdmb/Ireland.PDF) [Portual Sorry](http://dpimi.com/sdmb/portugal.PDF) Warning: PDF files [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-ireland-still-sorry-that-hitler-is-dead/504060.md?page=3)