# Is Islamism in Egypt really worth worrying about? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 15, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453 "2011-02-15T15:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/41 "2011-02-15T19:02:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sorry, but such a statement shows real fundamental misunderstanding of Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood … > Essentially saying of the Muslim Brotherhood, “these are not your Ayatollah’s Islamists” is like saying of the promise keepers, “these are not your Pope’s Evangelicals.” Ahem, mate I think that’s he meant it. Certainly how I read it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/42 "2011-02-15T19:30:16Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What else are Israelis thinking of when they think of Israeli-Egyptian relations these days? [/QUOTE] The possibility of war perhaps? The possibility of worsening relations with a major power on their borders? The possibility that Egypt might allow an open border with Gaza, thus supplying to folks living there with all manner of new military toys to play with? > [@](#): > > No, you’re wrong, it was a serious question: If you were one of the rocket-launchers in Gaza, how would you least want the Israeli government to respond to your attacks? Welllllll…leaving aside the fact that rocket launchers don’t have feelings (they are simply tubes that launch rockets), I’d say my own least optimal choice for what I’d want Israel to do would be to bomb the crap out of my house and kill my family. Somewhere on that spectrum would probably be ‘invade and smash Gaza to the ground and use our guts to grease their tank treads’, and perhaps the old standby of crushing the enemy (a.k.a. me and my buds, if I’m a Palestinian), seeing us driven before them (on the way towards a major new war with Egypt), and to hear the lamentation of our women (which means we are all dead…major suckage). But then, I’m not one to kick an angry bear (with a thorn in it’s paw and having a REALLY bad day) squarely in the nuts to see what it will do, so it’s rather hard to put myself into the proper Palestinian mindset. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/43 "2011-02-15T19:34:18Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Welllllll…leaving aside the fact that rocket launchers don’t have feelings (they are simply tubes that launch rockets), I’d say my own least optimal choice for what I’d want Israel to do would be to bomb the crap out of my house and kill my family. See post #33. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/44 "2011-02-15T19:35:55Z")
I saw it. Was there a specific point you wanted to make? Could you detail it in more than one sentence? 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/45 "2011-02-15T19:42:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [shrug] Why should Gazans have to go hungry because some of their neighbors are violent assholes? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/46 "2011-02-15T19:48:15Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > But then, I’m not one to kick an angry bear (with a thorn in it’s paw and having a REALLY bad day) squarely in the nuts to see what it will do, so it’s rather hard to put myself into the proper Palestinian mindset. So what do smart people do to the “angry bear (with a thorn in it’s paw and having a REALLY bad day)”? Suck his balls I presume? ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/47 "2011-02-15T19:59:31Z")
If Eqypt turns into a theocracy after having seen how that’s been working out in Iran for the past 30 years, then that’s what they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/48 "2011-02-15T20:01:30Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > So what do smart people do to the “angry bear (with a thorn in it’s paw and having a REALLY bad day)”? > > Suck his balls I presume? I am sensing an excluded middle of bear-management here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/49 "2011-02-15T20:05:05Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I saw it. Was there a specific point you wanted to make? Could you detail it in more than one sentence? 😉 > > -XT What response could Israel take to the rocket attacks from Gaza, that would be most injurious to the cause of the parties launching them? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/50 "2011-02-15T20:16:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What response could Israel take to the rocket attacks from Gaza, that would be most injurious to the cause of the parties launching them? Nuking Gaza? Committing genocide and wiping out the Palestinians? Releasing compromising pictures of Khaled Mashal having an orgy with Ismail Haniyeh? Where are you trying to go with this? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/51 "2011-02-15T20:22:46Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Nuking Gaza? Committing genocide and wiping out the Palestinians? Releasing compromising pictures of Khaled Mashal having an orgy with Ismail Haniyeh? Where are you trying to go with this? I assume he’s making some sort of pitch for quietism/pacifism on the part of the Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/52 "2011-02-15T20:23:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Nuking Gaza? Committing genocide and wiping out the Palestinians? Releasing compromising pictures of Khaled Mashal having an orgy with Ismail Haniyeh? Where are you trying to go with this? I am trying to **present the question for debate.** I actually have no opinion as to the answer (though I suppose I could name any number of things Israel might do that **wouldn’t** hurt the cause). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/53 "2011-02-15T20:25:56Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Ibn, are the MB considered to be equally radical, more radical, or less so than similar groups across that area of the world? > > Because if what you say is true, and it may be, I don’t know, that is a very scary description. However, that doesn’t invalidate what Brain said either because his assertion is that the MB is not as bad as the others. I never said that the MB were more radical than comparable groups in the ME and that’s not what Brain said either, though he may have alluded to it with his weird reference to the “Ayatollah’s Islamists”. Brain claimed that they were _less_ radical and less bigoted than the RR in the US and comparable to the Christian Democrats. Such a claim is not only demonstrably false, but it’s utterly idiotic. The motto of the Muslim Brotherhood is **Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur’an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope**. Anyone who claims that such a group is comparable to the Christian Democrats in German either does not know anything about those two groups or they have been given really horrible information. Now, is the MB as militant as they used to be? No, because they didn’t like getting locked up in prisons and tortured. Trying to compare “radicals” in the US to “radicals” in the Islamic World is utterly foolish. For a variety of reasons, if you scratch below the surface of most clerics in the Middle East, whether Christian or Muslim, you’ll find that even most of the moderates tend to hold somewhat medieval views on a wide range of subjects. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/54 "2011-02-15T20:39:25Z")
That doesn’t answer the question of whether they are worse or better than similar groups across that region. All of us are rightly concerned about the next group taking leadership in Egypt. But it serves no one any good to speculate wildly and inaccurately about the makeup of that group. I simply want to know if the MB, while probably differing extremely from something I’d be comfortable here in the US, would be a moderating voice within that part of the world Yes, maybe a lot of their views are medieval, but are they more or less so than other groups in the area? I’ve given up on hoping that Egypt will become a peaceful, secular democracy with no religious influence. We can’t even get that here in the US, which is what I’m sure Brain was referring to: too many Christians here want to turn the US into a theocracy. But within the civilized western world, the US style of extremist Christian fundamentalism is more extreme than a lot of the comparable groups. Is the MB the same way in Egypt? Or are they less so than, for example, Hamas? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/55 "2011-02-15T20:40:06Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > So what do smart people do to the “angry bear (with a thorn in it’s paw and having a REALLY bad day)”? I’d try keeping a low profile. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/56 "2011-02-15T20:54:15Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Trying to compare “radicals” in the US to “radicals” in the Islamic World is utterly foolish. For a variety of reasons, if you scratch below the surface of most clerics in the Middle East, whether Christian or Muslim, you’ll find that even most of the moderates tend to hold somewhat medieval views on a wide range of subjects. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/57 "2011-02-15T21:13:44Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Yes, maybe a lot of their views are medieval, but are they more or less so than other groups in the area? I find people of different faiths from the region to be more intensely involved with their religion. However, I’d rather be on the receiving end of a breach of faith from a Christian denomination than a Muslim one. Infidelity, apostasy or same-sex encounters could become a life threatening event. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/58 "2011-02-15T21:21:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I find people of different faiths from the region to be more intensely involved with their religion. However, I’d rather be on the receiving end of a breach of faith from a Christian denomination than a Muslim one. Infidelity, apostasy or same-sex encounters could become a life threatening event. I don’t think gay Ugandans would draw the same distinction you do. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/59 "2011-02-15T21:44:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I am sensing an excluded middle of bear-management here. 😃 I see a lot of excluding the middle in arguments about the Middle East. Makes you wonder why they call it the “Middle” East. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453/60 "2011-02-15T21:56:06Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I see a lot of excluding the middle in arguments about the Middle East. Makes you wonder why they call it the “Middle” East. It is more hilarious when it is in the form of an analogy involving bears. “You see an angry bear in the woods. Do you (a) hoof it in the balls; or (b) appease it by giving it some oral sex”? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-islamism-in-egypt-really-worth-worrying-about/571453.md?page=4)