Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

Great Debates
21

Wow. For all the self-praise on this site, I would expect to have seen at least a hint of recognition of the part that the past of Israel itself plays in all this. I’m not seeing a mention.

Remember when Israel was created and why? It sure as hell wasn’t set up as a European Invasion Back Door, just in case those pesky Germans got frisky again. It was created primarily because some of the VICTORIOUS nations and Empires promised to do so. The stated reason why it was promised, was to create a homeland for the otherwise stateless Jews, with the somewhat foggy idea that a people who DO have a “home state,” will somehow be better served on the international scene, than those without one.

Next, in a general way, following World War 2 and the creation of Israel, the worldwide battle between the Soviet Union and the United States, was fought in proxy countries around the globe. In the crucial Middle East (oil), the Russians worked to ally themselves with various countries,and so we did as well. Like competitors in a bidding war, they got Arab states (in large part because the Arab states didn’t care for the US’s primary allies, their immediately previous Imperial masters, the French and British), so we got what we could, which was Israel, and Turkey.

As the USSR went into collapse and the Middle East power blocks shifted, Israel changed from being a hedge against the Russians, to being a hedge against first Arab, and then Islamic anti-American concerns.

Whether or not it has been wise to make Israel so important, is a separate question.

Oh, one more big element in “why we act like we like Israel,” has nothing whatsoever to do with Israel the place. Israel the IDEA, gets certain people in the United States elected or not. Pretending that Israel is hugely important to us strategically, regardless of reality, is still a big DOMESTIC political game card for politicians to play.

22

The reason I did not go into the history of Israel is that the OP asked about the strategic value. OP did not ask for a moral justification, a historical one, or how support plays out in the politics of the US and the West.

Strategically - I do not see a net gain, though I am open to arguments for a strategic ROI to our support.
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23

Turkey is fragile. Israel is the only one in the region who, through governments left and right, won’t implode.

Our intelligence agencies quite likely work together.

24

Israel is of strategic value to the West in the same sense as Hong Kong or Berlin (post-WW2) was of strategic value to Britain or the Allies. All are/were impossibly outnumbered and surrounded by hostile values and/or troops. Israel is strong now, but if seriously threatened, cannot hold out forever, and if the West is determined to remain an ally, this will be a recipe for ruin for both. Even though my personal sympathies are with Israel, let’s be realistic – such an outcome is the only one possible in the long run.

25

Why? Because of the “Jasmine revolution”?
Certainly a lot of westerners hyped it, but it hardly strikes me as exactly functioning.

It strikes me more like a post-Khaddafi Libya.

26

Israel has few natural resources and it is not in a strategically important location. Its eternal conflicts with its neighbours do not make it a diplomatic asset that helps further good relations with some very important suppliers of oil and gas. In terms of geopolitics, Israel is a diplomatic liability.

Israel is an important country to the US and West because it has great influence on the domestic politics of the US, far more than any other country. That is because it has an extremely powerful lobby and a network across business and finance that all US politicians must take into account. This is such that Israel’s security is effectively underwritten by the US and it has a major influence on US foreign policy in the Middle East which it directs in its own interest. No other country of such a small size has that much influence. Many certainly wish they had.

None of this benefits the US as a nation state, quite the opposite, it severely limits US foreign policy in a region that is strategically important.

This is the elephant in the room.

27

Right, that’s why we have so many US bases in Israel. Can you imagine how ludicrous it would have been to have staged attacks on Iraq from an Arab country?

28

We don’t exactly need bases. Ben Gurion airport does just fine.

29

Why don’t you read the post and its points? Or does the fact that I’m Jewish make you see red?

30

Is at the other end of the Mediterranean.

31

Turkey is a fickle ally. It is focused on fighting Kurds, who are in effect a U.S. ally.
Saudi is a fickle ally. It is presently focused against Qatar, for Qatar’s liberalism (e.g. free press).
Thus Israel is, by far, the U.S.'s firmest ally in the region. U.S. plus Israel make a more formidable power than U.S. alone.

A key question is not whether the West “needs” Israel, but whether Israel will be enough. A formidable Russia-Syria-Shia axis is emerging, and is growing stronger as U.S. passes up opportunities, e.g. for detente with Iran or for a liberal government in Iraq. How will this develop? Are there any grounds for optimism?

32

When we talk about the relative strength of Israel, are we talking normally or when Saturn enters a fire sign?

33

Not sure what you being jewish has to do with it , but he’s not wrong. The US has had a much more difficult time making friends in the middle east with Arab nations due directly to its support of Israel as a nation state since the Balfour Declaration in 1917. Of course that’s not the only reason, but it’s a big one.

34

You realize that the BD came from the UK, right?

35

Yes. Which the US supported.

36

As usual with this topic, we’re dancing around the point. No-one is saying “Hey let’s cut ties with Israel!”.
The debate in the US seems to largely be Should the US openly criticize some actions of the Israeli government / IDF?

And the only sane answer, in my view, is yes, of course. You can be overall supportive while at the same time giving your honest opinion about unhelpful actions.

37

What exactly are we going to ship to Israel?

If all we need is an airport, there are airports in Iraq, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Kuwait, and Bahrain. And we have floating airports that we can move nearby.

We have absolutely no need to stage troops in Israel to invade or attack other countries in the Middle East, and in fact Israel will never allow such a thing unless they already being invaded.

We have no military assets in Israel, we don’t coordinate military exercises with Israel, we don’t conduct joint operations with Israel. we don’t stage attacks on other countries from Israel, we don’t have US troops in Israel to defend it. Israel is not a military ally of the United States. Compare and contrast our actual military alliance with a country like South Korea.

The notion that we’re propping up Israel because one day we might need to invade Syria is quite silly. Israel didn’t help us when we invaded Iraq. It doesn’t help us when we bomb Syria. It does not materially support our military adventures in the Middle East.

All this is regardless of the government of Israel or the cultural ties we have with Israel, or the future status of Israel. Sure, Israel is a friendly country. It is not an allied country.

38

Yep, good friends can disagree about certain things and remain friends.

39

As they should have because:

The Roosevelt Administration refused to allow Jews fleeing the Third Reich to enter the USA; thus indirectly creating the situation that made Israel necessary.

Palestine was initially split between Jews and Arabs; the Arabs responded by attacking nascent Israel.

It aligned with US policy that favored independence for colonial lands.

40

US is a commercial and military trading partner with Israel. The US sends billions of dollars of aid to Israel every year. US and Israel collaborate on intelligence and cyber security.

While the US doesn’t ask Israel to directly support military efforts in the ME, that’s more for geo-political reasons than because they hate to impose on a friend.