# Is Israel's pull out of Gaza a new beginning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 20, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046 "2005-02-20T19:37:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/21 "2005-02-23T00:09:39Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > So around 95% of the West Bank will be on the Palestinian side of the fence. The previous value was either 84% or 86% IIRC – so the new route has effectively put 2/3 of the area previously left on the Israeli side over onto the Palestinian side. Dunno about the Arable Land question, but at 95% of all land, I hardly think that is so much of an issue anymore. Especially as most of the 5% Israel will be keeping on our side of the fence is non-agricultural communities (Ma’ale Adumim, Gush Etzion) near Jerusalem. Perhaps you can explain something to me/others. Those of us in the west just keep hearing about “settlements” and can’t visualize what they are exactly. But as I’ve come to understand it, they are very some different animals. Some are just a handful of people living in trailers on top of a hill surrounded by razor wire, and we outsiders can pretty easily say that kicking them out should be no big deal. OTOH, some of them (and I’m guessing these are the ones you’ve named), are essentially suburbs of Jerusalem, with large numbers of people living, working and shopping in permanent structures. Moving all of them is a much different proposition. ---
**Author:** ![wampeter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@wampeter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wampeter)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/22 "2005-02-23T16:59:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Perhaps you can explain something to me/others. Those of us in the west just keep hearing about “settlements” and can’t visualize what they are exactly. But as I’ve come to understand it, they are very some different animals. Some are just a handful of people living in trailers on top of a hill surrounded by razor wire, and we outsiders can pretty easily say that kicking them out should be no big deal. OTOH, some of them (and I’m guessing these are the ones you’ve named), are essentially suburbs of Jerusalem, with large numbers of people living, working and shopping in permanent structures. Moving all of them is a much different proposition. You described the settlement situation perfectly. Some are just a few crazies living in Gaza and the W.B. for the “principle of the thing”, and some are actual suburbs or towns where there are houses, streets, shopping centers, schools, even universities (Ariel). Therefore some are easy to remove (and should be), while some are just logistically nearly impossible to remove. [QUOTE] wampeter – welcome aboard! I’d love if you signed up and we had another Israeli here [QUOTE] Thanks! I’ve been a lurker for a LONG time, and am currently a guest… but my trial period is up in a few days, and being a student, I won’t be able to pay the fees. Back to lurking… 🙂 Oh, and I actually laughed at your comments about the settlers (read: the annoying ones), just don’t like when extreme leftists would rather get rid of the Jews than the Hamasniks. I don’t think you’re one of them, though. -wampeter ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/23 "2005-02-23T18:28:48Z")
> [@wampeter](#): > > Oh, and I actually laughed at your comments about the settlers (read: the annoying ones), just don’t like when extreme leftists would rather get rid of the Jews than the Hamasniks. I don’t think you’re one of them, though. Not by a long shot… I am (or at least was :() a _Shinui_ voter. Not sure what I’ll do next time, though. > [@](#): > > Thanks! I’ve been a lurker for a LONG time, and am currently a guest… but my trial period is up in a few days, and being a student, I won’t be able to pay the fees. Back to lurking… 🙂 [hijack]It’s quite common here for people who **can** afford it to pay the way for posters who **can’t**. If you’re interested, send me an email (in my profile) and we can work out the details. [/hijack] Dani ---
**Author:** ![wampeter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@wampeter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wampeter)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/24 "2005-02-23T19:20:03Z")
> [@](#): > > [hijack]It’s quite common here for people who **can** afford it to pay the way for posters who **can’t**. If you’re interested, send me an email (in my profile) and we can work out the details. > [/hijack] > > Dani [hijack]Really?? (I’m very interested, but only if it’s not inconvenient) I can’t access member profiles. My email is in my profile, if you want to contact me.[/hijack] Sorry for the selfish hijack in GD. Please continue the conversation… -wampeter ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/25 "2005-02-23T21:50:33Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > The result will probably be a unilateral withdrawal and disengagement from Gaza and a large part of the West Bank. . . . The Palestinian economy will not recover, remaining heavily dependent on outside aid. The border between Israel and Palestine will remain essentially closed. But the border between the West Bank and Jordan will open up. Mightn’t that help with Palestinian economic recovery? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/26 "2005-02-23T21:54:41Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Excuse me, but I don’t seehow anything can ever happen except more violence. Face it, there cannot be two Palestinian states (Gaza and West Bank), separated by Israel. Where are the electric, water, gas lines going to run? Something could be worked out. Several countries have non-contiguous territory. The U.S. has Alaska. > [@ralph124c](#): > > The region needs some kind of allied government, to deal with the water and power issues… Do you mean, Gaza allied with the West Bank? Or Israel allied with Palestine? > [@ralph124c](#): > > who in his right mind would invest in a factory (in Gaza), if the output of such business could not be sold in Israel? But it could be sold practically anywhere else in the world. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/27 "2005-02-23T21:55:43Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Excuse me, but I don’t seehow anything can ever happen except more violence. Face it, there cannot be two Palestinian states (Gaza and West Bank), separated by Israel. Where are the electric, water, gas lines going to run? Something could be worked out. Several countries have non-contiguous territory. The U.S. has Alaska. > [@ralph124c](#): > > The region needs some kind of allied government, to deal with the water and power issues… Do you mean, Gaza allied with the West Bank? Or Israel allied with Palestine? > [@ralph124c](#): > > who in his right mind would invest in a factory (in Gaza), if the output of such business could not be sold in Israel? But it could be sold practically anywhere else in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046/28 "2005-02-23T22:00:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But the border between the West Bank and Jordan will open up. Mightn’t that help with Palestinian economic recovery? There are, even now, relatively few restrictions on passage of Palestinians from the W.B. into Jordan. It **may** sometimes be more difficult to return, but the horror stories about Palestinians not let back home, while they exist, are in truth few and far between. They also happen to be “news”… So the situation there isn’t going to change much. Main point is, the Jordanian economy is pretty much in the toilet right now, and has been for several years now. In its current state it’s barely supporting itslef, let alone an influx of employment seekers from a population of comparable size. Some peace and quiet in the region could **indirectly** help the Palestinians (as well as all of the rest of us) by helping **all** of the economies of the neighboring countries (including Israel), but I wouldn’t expect any direct effect such as you’re suggesting. Dani [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-israels-pull-out-of-gaza-a-new-beginning/291046.md?page=1)