# Is it 2003 everywhere? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392 "2003-04-17T19:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/1 "2003-04-17T19:23:58Z")
A buddy of mine claimed that if you told a Chinese person that it was 2003, they would look at you blankly, as if you were an idiot. To them, it was clearly 3500. Same story, different year for a Muslim. He smarmily said to me “Haven’t you ever heard of the Chinese New Year”. I told him he was an idiot. Sure I’d heard of the Chinese New Year, but I’m not willing to accept his claim that they would stare at you blankly. They aren’t clueless just because they aren’t from the U.S. (his general world view) They would have been tipped off at some point in their lives that most of the world considers it 2003, even if they live in a deep dark recess. Now I have to find a cite or a reference. And I turn to you. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/2 "2003-04-17T19:29:57Z")
It’s true that there are different numbering systems in place in many different countries. But with American cultural hegemony I’d be astonished if someone **didn’t** understand. It’s unreasonable to assume a moderately sophisticated person who was at all aware wouldn’t be able to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/3 "2003-04-17T19:30:14Z")
I suppose it depends on **which** Chinese person you ask. There are several of them in the world. A shopkeeper on Polk St. in San Francisco would have no reason to look puzzled but someone in the countryside in China may have no reason to be aware of the Jesus-centric (though incorrect) Gregorian calendar. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/4 "2003-04-17T19:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > …that most of the world considers it 2003, even if they live in a deep dark recess. Wow, they’re really backward just cos they use a different calendar? Anyway, I think most people (other than those that have absolutely no contact with other countries) would be aware that it’s 2003 by the Western world’s way of thinking. Interestingly, when I was in [Thailand](http://www.amazing-thailand.com/Festive.html) last year, most of my till receipts, bus tickets etc, gave the date as 2545, but some gave it as 2002. (Sadly they stamped my passport with 2002… it would have been quite cool to have a Buck Rogers-esque date in there 🙂 ) Similarly, posters advertising forthcoming events used either date, seemingly without rhyme or reason. But I’d wager anyone in the country knew it was “both” years. Other weirdness… it’s still 1995 in Ethiopia, cos they use the [Coptic calendar](http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-other.html). ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/5 "2003-04-17T19:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > …that most of the world considers it 2003, even if they live in a deep dark recess. Wow, they’re really backward just cos they use a different calendar? Anyway, I think most people (other than those that have absolutely no contact with other countries) would be aware that it’s 2003 by the Western world’s way of thinking. Interestingly, when I was in [Thailand](http://www.amazing-thailand.com/Festive.html) last year, most of my till receipts, bus tickets etc, gave the date as 2545, but some gave it as 2002. (Sadly they stamped my passport with 2002… it would have been quite cool to have a Buck Rogers-esque date in there 🙂 ) Similarly, posters advertising forthcoming events used either date, seemingly without rhyme or reason. But I’d wager anyone in the country knew it was “both” years. Other weirdness… it’s still 1995 in Ethiopia, cos they use the [Coptic calendar](http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-other.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/6 "2003-04-17T20:35:29Z")
Heck, I have a calander not 3’ away at this exact moment which declares that today is 15-Nisan-5763. And I assure you that I am well aware that it is also 17-April-2003. I find it hard to believe that you would be likely to find anyone who wasn’t at least vaguely aware that, according to western culture, it is the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/7 "2003-04-17T21:33:48Z")
[**1.**](http://www.historymole.com/cgi-bin/main/results.pl?type=theme&theme=Calendar) > [@](#): > > **01 Oct 1949** China adopts the Gregorian calendar after a declaration by Mao Zedong. [**2.**](http://astro.nmsu.edu/~lhuber/leaphist.html) > [@](#): > > Although the Gregorian calendar is used in the Peoples’ Republic of China for administrative purposes, the traditional Chinese calendar is used for setting traditional festivals and for timing agricultural activities in the countryside. In other words, although what we call the “Chinese” calendar (I believe it’s called the farmers’ calendar within China) is used for certain activities, any Chinese person who has had any contact with the government – which should be just about everyone (did you go to school? do you pay taxes?) – will know what the Gregorian calendrical date is. More broadly, I’d argue that, today, any society that has advanced beyond the “wake up, find grub, go to sleep, repeat cycle” stage and thus need to consult calendars, would also be sophisticated enough to need to work with the outside world, meaning that they’ll have to encounter – and understand – the Gregorian calendar sooner or later, whether they use it as their primary means of datekeeping or not. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/8 "2003-04-17T21:48:54Z")
Your friend obviously missed the hoopla shown on television for the last New Year’s (2003 AD/CE) celebration. China was really into it. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/9 "2003-04-18T00:49:46Z")
Thank you **Earthling**. Your information was vital in allowing me to administer a most enjoyable smackdown. ---
**Author:** ![Aankh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@Aankh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aankh)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/10 "2003-04-18T01:28:18Z")
the Hindus have an equally confusing system… IIRC, there’s something called a Saka calendar, another called the Samvat calendar, and a host of others based on different solar and lunar calculations. accordingly, the current year could be 1923, 2059, etc., etc… most traditional households have the Gregorian calendar for daily functioning and a Hindu calendar for keeping track of festivals and religious events (such as a particular day being auspicious or not). human beings are amazing, the things we manage to come up with. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/11 "2003-04-18T01:36:44Z")
Japanese have a “traditional” calendar which measures the year of the emperor’s reign. I think Muslims (or is it only Arab Muslims) traditionally measure the year from the the date of Mohammed’s birth. Not sure exacltly how the Jews do it, but obviously they’re not keen on measureing years in terms of Christ’s brith. But the Gregorian calender rules, man. Literally. Your friend, though technically correct, is exagerating the reaction you’d get unless you were REALLY in some remote area. ---
**Author:** ![irae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f0a364/32.png) [@irae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irae)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/12 "2003-04-18T01:44:52Z")
In Taiwan, it’s 92 (years since the founding of the republic in 1911). ---
**Author:** ![Opus1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/858c86/32.png) [@Opus1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Opus1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/13 "2003-04-18T01:48:05Z")
Muslims measure time from the date of the Hegira, not Muhammed’s birth. Jews allegedly measure from the creation of the universe, but I haven’t found a Biblical timeline yet that jibes with that age. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/14 "2003-04-18T02:13:09Z")
I’m pretty sure it is 1958 in New Brunswick. I’m not sure about Miami and the American Midwest. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/15 "2003-04-18T03:23:37Z")
Some formal documents of the United States Government use a dual dating system, dated both in years A.D. and in years since independence. For example, the [Constitution](http://memory.loc.gov/const/const.html): > [@](#): > > Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names, Most [presidential proclamations](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010913-7.html) are still dated in this fashion: > [@](#): > > NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Friday, September 14, 2001, as a National Day of Prayer and Remembrance for the Victims of the Terrorist Attacks on September 11, 2001. I ask that the people of the United States and places of worship mark this National Day of Prayer and Remembrance with noontime memorial services, the ringing of bells at that hour, and evening candlelight remembrance vigils. I encourage employers to permit their workers time off during the lunch hour to attend the noontime services to pray for our land. I invite the people of the world who share our grief to join us in these solemn observances. > > IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this thirteenth day of September, in the year of our Lord two thousand one, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-sixth. > > GEORGE W. BUSH ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/16 "2003-04-18T03:50:47Z")
In North Korea, it’s Juche Year 92. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/17 "2003-04-18T04:21:37Z")
\>\> 01 Oct 1949 China adopts the Gregorian calendar after a declaration by Mao Zedong I believe this to be incorrect and the Western Calendar was adopted in 1911 after the fall of the Qing dynasty. [http://www.chinese-arts-centre.org/CNY.html](http://www.chinese-arts-centre.org/CNY.html) Mainland China adopted the Western calendar in 1911 ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/18 "2003-04-18T04:41:21Z")
The government that came after the 1911 revolution run by the Kuomintang, and – this maybe splitting hairs – would it be possible that after the Communists claimed power over the mainland that they, for some reason, wanted to declare for themselves the adoption of the Gregorian calendar regardless of whether it was used by the KMT or not? Yeah, maybe that didn’t make a whole lot of sense, but anyway, the larger point that a Chinese person wouldn’t look at you blankly if you told him that the year is now 2003 still stands either way. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/19 "2003-04-18T04:52:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Mace \* > **Japanese have a “traditional” calendar which measures the year of the emperor’s reign.** And for those of you who’ve never been to Japan, I might add that this system is as widely used as the Western callendar. Today is April 18th of Heisei 15. It’s kind of confusing for newcomers to find your milk’s best-before-date to be 11-12-15 or something like that. To be more precise, though, using emperors’ reigns is a relatively recent tradition. There are only 4 such eras. Meiji: 1868 to 1912 Taisho: 1912 to 1926 Showa: 1926 to 1989 Heisei: 1989 to today Many official forms ask for your birthdate in traditional form only; it’s far from a dead system. Prior to the Meiji era, periods changed according to “auspicious events”. Those could have been anything - and were often indeed quite trivial. Those periods were often fairly short, which makes calculating dates virtually impossible. This is particularly frustrating when texts only give the Japanese date - though usually the western date is also given. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392/20 "2003-04-18T05:12:35Z")
jovan: You left out the most fun part of Japanese Calendrics! When the day, month, and year of the reign all match, there’s a major rush on the post offices to get the postmark with the date of, for example, Heisei 8-8-8. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-2003-everywhere/169392.md?page=2)