# Is it a bad thing to encourage a child who is an awful singer to be a musician? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502 "2013-05-28T00:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/21 "2013-05-28T06:04:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Anybody who’d “give up” something they loved doing just because they realized they were never going to be very good at it probably didn’t love it all that much to start with. Well…maybe. I’m like you were. I can’t sing, at least in part because I’m a bit tone deaf (I can’t tell apart two tones if they’re close enough). I’d like to sing, I’d have liked playing the guitar (the latter in fact would be much easier). But, that’s true, I’m not going to devote my life to be able to sing like almost everybody else can naturally. I’m sure there are plenty of things I’ve no talent for I could learn to do not very well without dedicating a decade or to to it. Still, I wish I could sing, and I’m frustrated. Regarding the girl in the OP, the problem seems to be that the parents are deluded too. Does she even have a coach? Or is all the family believing that one can become a professional singer without any training? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/22 "2013-05-28T06:10:59Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Either way, it’d be worse to encourage a kid who’s bad at math to be an engineer. What’s so bad about being a bad musician? She wants to become a professional singer, apparently. So, no difference with the engineer. And in she wanted to become an engineer, I’m sure her parents would have her receive training (going to college/uni) while I’m unconvinced she’s being taught how to sing. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/23 "2013-05-28T06:47:20Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > She wants to become a professional singer, apparently. So, no difference with the engineer. And in she wanted to become an engineer, I’m sure her parents would have her receive training (going to college/uni) while I’m unconvinced she’s being taught how to sing. Last I checked, being a poor musician doesn’t directly cause people to die. Just singing a lot can teach one a hell of a lot about singing without killing anyone. Freelance engineering, not so much. If she’s lazy and just wants to be a star, autotune works wonders. Plus, she can always just sell her soul to the devil. I’ve heard that works well. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/24 "2013-05-28T06:59:53Z")
Of course not. Singing that well, she could totally be a drummer. I kid, of course. But it’s a little obnoxious to push a kid out there as a singer-songwriter when she’s that bad. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/25 "2013-05-28T07:30:24Z")
It isn’t wrong to encourage them, but it is wrong to pretend they are so much better than they are. That will actually discourage them from doing what is necessary to become good. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/26 "2013-05-28T08:01:49Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It isn’t wrong to encourage them, but it is wrong to pretend they are so much better than they are. That will actually discourage them from doing what is necessary to become good. On the other hand, your parents are not _American Idol_ judges and it’s not their job to give you devastatingly unsparing assessments of your creative attempts. Your parents’ job is to help you find the guidance of others who **will** provide devastatingly unsparing assessments of your creative attempts. Teachers and coaches, directors holding auditions, judges at competitions, and so on. Those are the people who should be telling it like it is, while your proud parents constantly repeat, “Honey, you were **wonderful**!!” Stage parents whose warped ambition makes them relentlessly critique and nag and scold their children towards stardom are even worse than overprotective parents who refuse to let anybody else breathe a word of criticism to their fondly indulged darlings. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/27 "2013-05-28T09:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Those are the people who should be telling it like it is, while your proud parents constantly repeat, “Honey, you were wonderful!!” o\_O ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/28 "2013-05-28T12:39:47Z")
I’m with **Kimstu**. A performer with an “overcoming” story is more inspirational to me than a naturally talented one. Few of us have natural talents. But almost all of us can work hard. Imagine how awesome we could all be if we stopped defining our abilities based on how we were as kids and kept learning new skills throughout our lifetimes. Lauryn Hill, who unfortunately is going to jail for not paying taxes, undeniably has a fantastic voice. But when she was a teenager, she was booed off the stage at Apollo. I’m so glad she didn’t let that discourage her. All musicians start off rather crappily. If not for encouraging parents, most early musicians would give up at the sound of their lame efforts. But yeah, THOSE parents should be horsewhipped for letting that girl mangle the anthem like that (I hadn’t listened to it when I posted earlier). As Martin Lawrence would say, she wasn’t a little Mariah Carey. She was a little Mariah Scarey! I’m starting to think that there should be a certificate you have to earn before you’re allowed to sing that song in public. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/29 "2013-05-28T14:05:57Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > It isn’t wrong to encourage them, but it is wrong to pretend they are so much better than they are. That will actually discourage them from doing what is necessary to become good. My feeling, too. It’s possible that she might develop into something good (but unlikely, simply because it’s unlikely for everyone), but she needs training from a good voice teacher. Thinking she’s of professional quality is not going to help her in the slightest. It boils down to a rule I heard about writing, which applies to any art: If you only notice what you’re doing well, you’ll never succeed. If you only notice what you’re doing wrong, then there’s hope for you. The girl and her parents only seem to notice what she does well (and their standard of that is biased). Until she learns to improve on what’s not working, she’ll never advance. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/30 "2013-05-28T14:18:31Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, if you bailed before 1:30 into the song, you aren’t really being fair. She’s not even that bad, even though the American Idol comparisons are apt. She’s totally unsure of herself up until about a minute in, then finds the tune, then goes all American Idol. I’m not hearing the same as you. I fast-forwarded to 1:30, and it still sounds just as, um, “pitchy,” to put it mildly. She gets closer to being on track during the “O, say does that star-spangled banner” part, though. That said, I admire her enthusiasm and courage in singing in front of a large crowd, especially as an 11 year old. She doesn’t seem to have much “natural” talent in regards to pitch perception, but I think a lot of that can be overcome with a good voice coach. I certainly wouldn’t stop her from singing as a parent, but I would invest in lessons if she wants to further explore her passion to set her on the right track, at least, and give her some honest criticism and encouragement. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/31 "2013-05-28T15:29:34Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Kids should absolutely be encouraged to pursue things that they have limited natural talent in. There is immense value in learning how to steadily improve at something via hard work and persistence, and it opens up a lot of mental doors when you realize that you can still enjoy and even succeed at things that you aren’t necessarily particularly well suited for. You don’t want your kid to be that gifted kid who skates through life on their gifts and never learns how to actually work at something. It tends to catch up with you eventually, and between talent and hard work, hard work will win every time. Baloney, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/32 "2013-05-28T15:33:37Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not hearing the same as you. I fast-forwarded to 1:30, and it still sounds just as, um, “pitchy,” to put it mildly. She gets closer to being on track during the “O, say does that star-spangled banner” part, though. Don’t get me wrong. It’s far from a stellar performance, and she needs to work hard for a long time, but it’s a lot less of a train wreck after the first minute. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/33 "2013-05-28T15:54:26Z")
A music teacher I once had told us that he had had a pupil who wanted to take violin lessons. The problem was that he was an awful singer who couldn’t hit the right tones even if his life depended on it. In the end it turned out that he became real good, so he had music in him and a good ear, but it just didn’t get to his vocal system. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/34 "2013-05-28T16:00:53Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > A music teacher I once had told us that he had had a pupil who wanted to take violin lessons. The problem was that he was an awful singer who couldn’t hit the right tones even if his life depended on it. In the end it turned out that he became real good, so he had music in him and a good ear, but it just didn’t get to his vocal system. Yeah, I know plenty of musicians who do have a good ear, but can’t sing for shit. I have a reasonable ear, and when I listen to a recording of myself sing, I cringe, but I know that I’m way off on pitches. I just can’t control them or hear them while I’m singing, for some reason. I don’t think this is particularly unusual. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/35 "2013-05-28T16:16:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Kids should absolutely be encouraged to pursue things that they have limited natural talent in. There is immense value in learning how to steadily improve at something via hard work and persistence, and it opens up a lot of mental doors when you realize that you can still enjoy and even succeed at things that you aren’t necessarily particularly well suited for. You don’t want your kid to be that gifted kid who skates through life on their gifts and never learns how to actually work at something. It tends to catch up with you eventually, and between talent and hard work, hard work will win every time. > > That said, in order to learn these lessons, kids need to have a realistic understanding of where they are, if not just so that they can see how they are improving. This doesn’t mean putting them down or telling them that they are no good, but rather encouraging them to improve and exposing them to appropriate competition. > > I don’t think this girl is necessarily a bad singer. But she has some truly awful coaching. I agree- learning to do things well that you weren’t originally good at builds character and confidence. So does learning that you’re not that good at it, despite all your effort. I think an important parental role is gently pointing out when something should be best done as a hobby, and when it can realistically be more than that. Hopefully the appropriate competition will reveal this to the kid, but there are enough kids who don’t realize that when they never win a competition and don’t even place, so there’s a parental role for a lot of them to point this out. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/36 "2013-05-28T16:49:17Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I’m pretty sure that Bob Dylan’s or Rod Stewart’s parents are glad they didn’t stop their kids. Bob Weir can’t sing worth poop. Of the Grateful Dead, only Jerry (and Pigpen I suppose) was a passable singer. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/37 "2013-05-28T17:24:32Z")
I work in the arts and education, and can say that there are fine, fine lines between making a kid want to quit, encouraging her to continue to strive and enjoy herself, and making her think that she is the next Miley Cyrus when she is most definitely not. And, parents almost always have an over-inflated concept of their child’s talent in relation to the kid’s peers. Checking out her bio on her reverbnation page, it’s apparent that she (and/or her parents) have an amazingly out-of-proportion perspective on how talented she is and what her current abilities say about her chances of “superstardom.” I also admit to getting a very bad taste in my mouth when I see any elementary-aged kid with professional glamour/headshots. Encouraging someone to continue and improve is definitely appropriate. The parents aren’t helping, because they’re already working on her “career” when they should be helping her work on her skills. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/38 "2013-05-28T17:44:41Z")
A professional website and a regular touring schedule including restaurants and stadiums suggests that the parents are putting in a lot of effort and expense in the wrong direction when it comes to helping the kid develop musically. Looks like beauty pageant parents in another guise. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/39 "2013-05-28T18:27:37Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [Texas parents defend daughter, 11, after critics blast her rendition of national anthem](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/30/texas-parents-defend-daughter-11-following-reports-blasting-worst-ever-national/) Apparently it’s all God’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/40 "2013-05-28T18:52:15Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If she keeps that up she won’t be able to sing at all in a few years, and the whole issue will be moot. Yes, get her a decent voice teacher pronto, not just so she won’t sound so awful, but so she won’t completely ruin her larynx before she gets her driver’s license. A respected, local voice teacher I know flat out will not accept students younger than 13-14, because before that, in most cases, their voices just aren’t ready for it. OTOH, there are 11-year-olds, and then there are 11-year-olds: https://www.youtube.com/embed/h4CnuAJejbU?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&start=61 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502.md?page=3)