# Is it a bad thing to encourage a child who is an awful singer to be a musician? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2013, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502 "2013-05-28T00:13:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/41 "2013-05-28T19:09:49Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I’m pretty sure that Bob Dylan’s or Rod Stewart’s parents are glad they didn’t stop their kids. Maybe so, but do you think Bob or Rod’s parents would have had their kid sing the national anthem before a big crowd at the age of 11? And would they have done their kid any favors if they had? I have no desire to insult a (probably) nice little girl, so I won’t. But if my son were comparably talented, I would not encourage him to do public appearances yet, if ever. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/42 "2013-05-28T19:15:55Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > A respected, local voice teacher I know flat out will not accept students younger than 13-14, because before that, in most cases, their voices just aren’t ready for it. > > OTOH, there are 11-year-olds, and then there are 11-year-olds: > > [https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player\_detailpage&v=h4CnuAJejbU#t=61s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=h4CnuAJejbU#t=61s) Wow. That is beyond impressive. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/43 "2013-05-28T19:41:34Z")
Why is Rod Stewart being cited as a bad singer? Dylan and Weir have their issues, but Stewart is fine. His cords must be aligned funky for him to have that rasp, but otherwise he’s fine… Everyone has their dream. If she’s willing to put herself out there and take that blowback to chase her dream, it’s her call. If she’s being pushed, it’s tragic… ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/44 "2013-05-28T19:57:52Z")
Beat me to it - Rod Stewart’s a great singer, with a raspy tone. And still going strong well into his sixties. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/45 "2013-05-28T20:11:32Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Kids should absolutely be encouraged to pursue things that they have limited natural talent in. There is immense value in learning how to steadily improve at something via hard work and persistence, and it opens up a lot of mental doors when you realize that you can still enjoy and even succeed at things that you aren’t necessarily particularly well suited for. You don’t want your kid to be that gifted kid who skates through life on their gifts and never learns how to actually work at something. It tends to catch up with you eventually, and between talent and hard work, hard work will win every time. > > That said, in order to learn these lessons, kids need to have a realistic understanding of where they are, if not just so that they can see how they are improving. This doesn’t mean putting them down or telling them that they are no good, but rather encouraging them to improve and exposing them to appropriate competition. > > I don’t think this girl is necessarily a bad singer. But she has some truly awful coaching. This is right on, as long as it’s tempered with a healthy dose of reality. You may _want_ to be the world’s fastest person, but if you don’t have the tools to get there, it’s a good thing to realize that as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/46 "2013-05-28T20:25:12Z")
If you go to her website and listen to some of the songs there, she’s not untalented…she’s just gotten HORRIBLE advice from a musical training perspective. As in, I can guarantee she’s never had voice lessons. When she sings normally, she actually has a very nice sound. It’s when she tries to embellish that she goes horribly off key and sounds like she’s being stepped on. Her national anthem was horrible because it was ALL embellishment. Get that girl some voice lessons and stop singing crappy pop and learn to sing properly, and she’d actually probably be fairly decent. Not great, mind you, but she’d sound pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/47 "2013-05-28T20:37:34Z")
> [@Jman](#): > > If you go to her website and listen to some of the songs there, she’s not untalented…she’s just gotten HORRIBLE advice from a musical training perspective. As in, I can guarantee she’s never had voice lessons. When she sings normally, she actually has a very nice sound. It’s when she tries to embellish that she goes horribly off key and sounds like she’s being stepped on. True that. Here’s [her audition video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D40P2E-koqo) for Idol. It is not bad. Her dad said she was confused by the echoes in the stadium. Now,[this girl](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKvr5a-KtkU)may not be blond and pretty, but OHMYGOD can she sing. ---
**Author:** ![kbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kbear)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/48 "2013-05-28T20:46:04Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Encourage kids to have fun, explore and learn, but at the same time give them the resources to do these things. In this case, get her a voice coach and a piano teacher. When my daughter was younger, I was so worried she’d want to try out for xFactor or something and I’d be forced to admit she couldn’t sing…but she’s had the same guitar/voice teacher for the last 6 or 7 years and you know, that girl can sing now. She’s not a powerhouse like Whitney, more of a folk style voice like Tracey Chapman but she more than holds her own on Showcase night at school. If in the end she REALLY can’t sing, she could still be a wicked guitar player or something ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/49 "2013-05-28T21:01:05Z")
I realize now that in my caffeine-deprived state this morning, I misread the Dylan/Stewart post as being a slam on them and their kids, not about them and their parents. I know of Jakob Dylan and just figured Stewart had a kid in the music business. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/50 "2013-05-28T21:07:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Wow. That is beyond impressive. Indeed it is, although IMO the girl in that link is possibly abusing her voice worse than the subject of the OP is. _An 11-year-old girl should not “belt” her chest voice in order to mimic the sound of an adult woman, whether she sounds good or bad doing it. It’s bad for the larynx._ A prepubescent girl’s voice is _supposed_ to sound high and sweet: if she sounds like a grown-up, she’s probably misusing her instrument, and that can cause serious damage. > [@Maastricht](#): > > Now, this girl may not be blond and pretty, but OHMYGOD can she sing. Yep, and she’s also an adult with a college degree, so she **should** sing like a grownup. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/51 "2013-05-28T21:17:36Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, if you bailed before 1:30 into the song, you aren’t really being fair. She’s not even that bad, even though the American Idol comparisons are apt. She’s totally unsure of herself up until about a minute in, then finds the tune, then goes all American Idol. While its not fantastic: she’s 11 (they aren’t known for their exquisite taste at that age), she’s able to meet the tune halfway, _it’s the friggin Star Spangled Banner (that thing is hard to sing!)_, she’s already better than my dad ever was. If you gave that song 90 seconds of your life, that’s more than a fair shake. I agree that the Star Spangled Banner is hard to sing. But the requirements to being a good singer are to sing well, not sing better than your dad. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/52 "2013-05-28T21:20:52Z")
There is a difference between encouraging and plastering their failure on the internet for the whole world to see. You should always try to encourage your kid to do better, there is nothing wrong with that. This is more like public shaming. ---
**Author:** ![gwendee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@gwendee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gwendee)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/53 "2013-05-28T21:49:52Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not hearing the same as you. I fast-forwarded to 1:30, and it still sounds just as, um, “pitchy,” to put it mildly. She gets closer to being on track during the “O, say does that star-spangled banner” part, though. > > That said, I admire her enthusiasm and courage in singing in front of a large crowd, especially as an 11 year old. She doesn’t seem to have much “natural” talent in regards to pitch perception, but I think a lot of that can be overcome with a good voice coach. I certainly wouldn’t stop her from singing as a parent, but I would invest in lessons if she wants to further explore her passion to set her on the right track, at least, and give her some honest criticism and encouragement. I agree with pretty much all of this. I don’t get the sense that she’s utterly devoid of talent. That arrangement of the anthem would be displeasing to me under the best circumstances. That, and her professional website lead me to wonder if she’s being pushed into the limelight too soon. Or demanding to be let into it. Based on no real information, just my gut reaction I feel like her “I want to be a star” quotient is just as high or higher than her “I love to sing” quotient. Why does an 11 year old need to be professional at anything? I watch America’s Got Talent, X-Factor, and The Voice. There always seem to be a lot of very young people auditioning. My very favorite response from the judges is “Please keep at it and come back in two or three years. You obviously have a gift. Go nurture it.” So my answer to the title question is, No, it isn’t inherently bad to encourage a child to develop a talent that’s not presenting fully yet. From a parental point of view I feel like someone should have gotten in between her and that particular performance - another arrangement might have been perfectly fine. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/54 "2013-05-28T22:28:43Z")
As many know, I shoot video of the performances by the School of Rock and put selected songs up on my YouTube channel. Everyone in the Performance program gets to participate in the concert. Fortunately, I’ve only encountered two genuinely _bad_ singers among the five School locations I shoot. I tend to avoid putting up mediocre singing - although the parents of one of the mediocre singers are among my best customers. They get their DVD with all the songs to watch in the privacy of their own home. To their credit, the School tries to find things the mediocre sings can sing. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/55 "2013-05-28T23:35:18Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > If you gave that song 90 seconds of your life, that’s more than a fair shake. > > I agree that the Star Spangled Banner is hard to sing. But the requirements to being a good singer are to sing well, not sing better than your dad. Where did I say that she had reached her goal of becoming a good singer? :dubious: And yeah, the real horror show here is that she’s already playing dates at 11. If you’re not some sort of prodigy, there’s no reason to do that. Lessons and recitals are where she belongs at this stage. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/56 "2013-05-29T01:12:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Maybe so, but do you think Bob or Rod’s parents would have had their kid sing the national anthem before a big crowd at the age of 11? Big crowd? It was a soccer game. 😕 > [@Jman](#): > > If you go to her website and listen to some of the songs there, she’s not untalented…she’s just gotten HORRIBLE advice from a musical training perspective. As in, I can guarantee she’s never had voice lessons. When she sings normally, she actually has a very nice sound. It’s when she tries to embellish that she goes horribly off key and sounds like she’s being stepped on. Her national anthem was horrible because it was ALL embellishment. Get that girl some voice lessons and stop singing crappy pop and learn to sing properly, and she’d actually probably be fairly decent. Not great, mind you, but she’d sound pleasant. I watched one and she’s not a bad 11-yr-old piano player. And give her another eleven years and she’ll be very pretty. Enough Autotune and over dubbing and she could be another \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. (Name left blank because I pay so little attention to current pop music that I don’t know which of them got big because of her looks and not her talent–I think it’s all of them. 😉 Let’s go with “the next Shelley Fabares.”) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/57 "2013-05-29T02:14:29Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Big crowd? It was a soccer game. 😕 Hey, I’ve played plenty of shows where I’d have been deeeeeeee-lighted to have a soccer game-sized crowd listening.😛 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/58 "2013-05-29T04:38:59Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Indeed it is, although IMO the girl in that link is possibly abusing her voice worse than the subject of the OP is. > > _An 11-year-old girl should not “belt” her chest voice in order to mimic the sound of an adult woman, whether she sounds good or bad doing it. It’s bad for the larynx._ That may be true, but I don’t know much about the physical demands of that type of singing for an 11-year-old. I’m just speaking as a listener. A voice coach (perhaps you are one) would be better able to ascertain if she’s really straining her instrument or not. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/59 "2013-05-29T05:59:05Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Let’s go with “the next Shelley Fabares.”) Or the next Mrs Miller. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2013, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502/60 "2013-05-29T10:27:24Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I work in the arts and education, and can say that there are fine, fine lines between making a kid want to quit, encouraging her to continue to strive and enjoy herself, and making her think that she is the next Miley Cyrus when she is most definitely not. > > And, parents almost always have an over-inflated concept of their child’s talent in relation to the kid’s peers. > > Checking out her bio on her reverbnation page, it’s apparent that she (and/or her parents) have an amazingly out-of-proportion perspective on how talented she is and what her current abilities say about her chances of “superstardom.” > > I also admit to getting a very bad taste in my mouth when I see any elementary-aged kid with professional glamour/headshots. > > Encouraging someone to continue and improve is definitely appropriate. The parents aren’t helping, because **they’re already working on her “career” when they should be helping her work on her skills.** This. It’s one thing to encourage a kid to learn to sing. It’s another to focus on doing music for a living before acquiring enough skills to not embarrass herself as an amateur. Just another symptom of buy-now-pay-later America. The media and the music industry have made so much money off the cruel myth that anyone can get ‘discovered’ overnight, even if no one who’s heard you so far thinks you’re any good. And if this girl’s parents aren’t preparing her for a non-music career by making her keep her grades up, they’re doing even more damage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-bad-thing-to-encourage-a-child-who-is-an-awful-singer-to-be-a-musician/659502.md?page=4)