# Is it a coincidence that both early 2000s SARS and COVID-19 both came from China? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 27, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418 "2020-03-27T13:26:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/21 "2020-03-27T17:26:34Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I heard about the Chinese gov’t originally being slow to react/covering it up, is there any truth to that? The local government appears to have done some mix of that, the central government didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/22 "2020-03-27T22:04:28Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > We’re just very lucky that there has not been a ‘Tyson Bird Flu’ or a ‘Hormel Swine Flu’ pandemic that started here. > > CMC fnord! You mean like this one? > **[2009 swine flu pandemic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic)** > > The 2009 swine flu pandemic, caused by the H1N1/swine flu/influenza virus and declared by the World Health Organization (WHO) from June 2009 to August 2010, was the third recent flu pandemic involving the H1N1 virus (the first being the 1918–1920 Spanish flu pandemic and the second being the 1977 Russian flu). The first identified human case was in La Gloria, Mexico, a rural town in Veracruz. The virus appeared to be a new strain of H1N1 that resulted from a previous triple reasso Unlike most s... ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/23 "2020-03-27T22:32:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Pangolin Says It Has More Viruses Where That Came From If People Don’t Leave It The Fuck Alone](https://exposingthebiggame.wordpress.com/2020/02/17/pangolin-says-it-has-more-viruses-where-that-came-from-if-people-dont-leave-it-the-fuck-alone/) Ironically captive pangolins are [very fragile](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4490220/) and particularly vulnerable to pneumonia. I first heard this from a keeper in the San Diego Zoo who was admonishing folks not to try and touch the animal she was exhibiting. Apparently the keepers go through a thorough disinfection process before attempting to handle one. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/24 "2020-03-28T00:55:18Z")
There was an article in a recent Science News about why bat viruses tend to be more dangerous to human (and pretty much all non-bats, for that matter) than other viruses. I tried to find the article online, but came up blank. Anyway, it seems that bats’ immune systems are much better at fighting off viruses than most animals. Part of this is bats’ ability to limit inflamation. So their viruses evolved to be more aggressive in spreading from cell to cell. And when those viruses get into animals that don’t have such a good immune system, they cause serious damage. This coronavirus is not the first one to come from bats. Marburg virus also came from bats and possibly Ebola did too. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/25 "2020-03-28T02:08:37Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There was an article in a recent Science News about why bat viruses tend to be more dangerous to human (and pretty much all non-bats, for that matter) than other viruses. I tried to find the article online, but came up blank… I assume it’s [this one.](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/bats-immune-system-viruses-ebola-marburg-people) ---
**Author:** ![R3d\_Anonymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@R3d\_Anonymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R3d_Anonymous)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/26 "2020-03-28T02:14:21Z")
Why can’t China just stop fucking around with animals? Seriously. Leave them alone. This is how we get all these bullshit virus outbreaks that fuck with us. Even after all this, now they’re experimenting with bear bile as a possible treatment for coronavirus. LEAVE THE ANIMALS THE FUCK ALONE. Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/27 "2020-03-28T02:53:40Z")
> [@R3d\_Anonymous](#): > > Why can’t China just stop fucking around with animals? Seriously. Leave them alone. This is how we get all these bullshit virus outbreaks that fuck with us. Even after all this, now they’re experimenting with bear bile as a possible treatment for coronavirus. LEAVE THE ANIMALS THE FUCK ALONE. Jesus. Traditional Chinese medicine is known to contain a lot of wu. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/28 "2020-03-28T02:57:09Z")
China won’t “just stop fucking around with animals” for the same reason that the US won’t. As others have already pointed out, it’s not about China. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/29 "2020-03-28T03:41:35Z")
Yeah, in some ways it is about China. Traditional Chinese “Medicine” has been a scourge on vulnerable animal species for decades now. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/30 "2020-03-28T04:10:27Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I assume it’s [this one.](https://www.sciencenews.org/article/bats-immune-system-viruses-ebola-marburg-people) Yes, that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![MaverocK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@MaverocK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaverocK)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/31 "2020-03-28T04:20:45Z")
There is an informative video from Vox with the title “_How wildlife trade is linked to coronavirus_” on Youtube. Link: [How wildlife trade is linked to coronavirus - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54) ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/32 "2020-03-28T09:43:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > China won’t “just stop fucking around with animals” for the same reason that the US won’t. As others have already pointed out, it’s not about China. And as others have pointed out, traditional wet markets and initial local cover-up played a significant part. The clocks at Trump tower are right twice a day. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/33 "2020-03-28T10:05:36Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > And as others have pointed out, traditional wet markets and initial local cover-up played a significant part. > > The clocks at Trump tower are right twice a day. This is all accurate but some of the facts get exaggerated, particularly by Trump and his supporters (Not by you, just using your post as a jumping off point) - The cover up seems to have been at a local level and was basically to hide negative news ahead of the party conference. This is appalling behaviour, particularly since the whistleblowers were even arrested. However, it’s been spun in much of the media as the Chinese government _knowing_ they had a pandemic threat on their hands and deciding to sit on it “for months”. The timeline and details are just not accurate. - The wet markets, in my Western-raised opinion are fucking disgusting and immoral. No argument there. But when people like Shapiro say the Chinese should stop eating bats, it’s very misleading. A very small number of bats are bought illegally in one or two cities for their medicinal properties. The vast majority of Chinese people are not even aware that this is a thing. If you come to Beijing hoping to try some bat soup, you’re gonna be disappointed. - China screwed up the initial phase pretty bad, but Trump’s attempt to focus on that (and name the virus “Chinese virus” or “Wuhan virus”) is just an attempt to duck any responsibility for how the virus has been handled in the US. And I am really worried about that aspect – if things get really bad in the US, Trump will lean more and more heavily into the anti-China thing, especially as it looks like China is essentially over this virus. The call for reparations will get louder, China will refuse, and I don’t know what happens after that ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/34 "2020-03-28T10:41:39Z")
The danger has been known, and remarked upon, for years now. From Cheng et al., _[Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus as an Agent of Emerging and Reemerging Infection](https://cmr.asm.org/content/20/4/660)_, Clinical Microbiology Reviews, Oct. 2007: > [@](#): > > The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. Of course, this doesn’t lead to any kind of indictment of Chinese culture. But it does mean that we could—and should—have been better prepared for this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/35 "2020-03-28T10:43:09Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > {…} And I am really worried about that aspect – if things get really bad in the US, Trump will lean more and more heavily into the anti-China thing, especially as it looks like China is essentially over this virus. The call for reparations will get louder, China will refuse, and I don’t know what happens after that ☹ Folk wisdom says the Great Depression was ended with WWII, so . . . yeah, there’s even more carnage we can prepare for! Damn, if I had only thought to invest in coffin futures. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/36 "2020-03-28T11:12:29Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > This is all accurate but some of the facts get exaggerated, particularly by Trump and his supporters (Not by you, just using your post as a jumping off point) > > - The cover up seems to have been at a local level and was basically to hide negative news ahead of the party conference. This is appalling behaviour, particularly since the whistleblowers were even arrested. However, it’s been spun in much of the media as the Chinese government _knowing_ they had a pandemic threat on their hands and deciding to sit on it “for months”. The timeline and details are just not accurate. > > - The wet markets, in my Western-raised opinion are fucking disgusting and immoral. No argument there. But when people like Shapiro say the Chinese should stop eating bats, it’s very misleading. A very small number of bats are bought illegally in one or two cities for their medicinal properties. The vast majority of Chinese people are not even aware that this is a thing. > If you come to Beijing hoping to try some bat soup, you’re gonna be disappointed. > > - China screwed up the initial phase pretty bad, but Trump’s attempt to focus on that (and name the virus “Chinese virus” or “Wuhan virus”) is just an attempt to duck any responsibility for how the virus has been handled in the US. > And I am really worried about that aspect – if things get really bad in the US, Trump will lean more and more heavily into the anti-China thing, especially as it looks like China is essentially over this virus. The call for reparations will get louder, China will refuse, and I don’t know what happens after that ☹ Agreed. I said “The clocks at Trump tower are right twice a day.” in a broad sense rather than the extent to which Trump and assorted shitheads like Shapiro will try to milk it. I’m not sure if I want to talk about Trump in case this gets sent to GD. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/37 "2020-03-28T13:20:42Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > - China screwed up the initial phase pretty bad, but Trump’s attempt to focus on that (and name the virus “Chinese virus” or “Wuhan virus”) is just an attempt to duck any responsibility for how the virus has been handled in the US. > > And I am really worried about that aspect – if things get really bad in the US, Trump will lean more and more heavily into the anti-China thing, especially as it looks like China is essentially over this virus. The call for reparations will get louder, China will refuse, and I don’t know what happens after that ☹ Yep to this. What’s also not discussed is how MAGA has fundamentally contributed to disorganized, uneven manner in which countries around the world are responding to the situation. World Wars One and Two were the product of a decades-long decline in globalization (their version of it) and a transition to nationalism. With globalization, there is greater emphasis on cooperation between two countries, even two competitors like China and the US. Rather than trading blame, countries say “Okay, the virus started here, let’s allow CDC and WHO to come in and help us analyze this.” And countries like the US say “China’s had some experience with this thing, let’s encourage them to open up and share what they know. Who knows? Maybe they have experimental treatments and they might be closer to a vaccine. They might have respirators, masks, and tests we don’t yet have.” That’s what global cooperation would look like. Instead, China was already feeling the pressure of a 2-year trade conflict and facing serious accusations of espionage and corporate theft. A fair number of these accusations were probably true but handled in such a way that China lost some face. China was also facing pressure over the HK protests. China had incentives to hide the problem so as not to scare off major companies who used Chinese labor as part of its supply chain. But now we’re seeing national competition playing out in a different way. Trump’s nationalism push has made the global response more complicated. Moreover, as you pointed out, his administration completely bungled the response on multiple fronts, and now it’s the US trying to save face. Two superpowers that are more concerned with trying to scam their own people isn’t a good prescription for a global solution. Further, there’s a real danger that the country that emerges with the first vaccine might not want to share it with everyone, as a way to punish others - and that would not just lead to a global health crisis but a global political crisis as well. It could lead to serious political fractures and destabilize governments across the globe. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/38 "2020-03-28T14:42:58Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I said “The clocks at Trump tower are right twice a day.” in a broad sense rather than the extent to which Trump and assorted shitheads like Shapiro will try to milk it. I’m not sure if I want to talk about Trump in case this gets sent to GD. **Moderator Note** This is a reminder to keep political jabs out of this forum. There are other forums and threads available for criticism of Trump. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/39 "2020-03-28T14:57:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Note** > > This is a reminder to keep political jabs out of this forum. There are other forums and threads available for criticism of Trump. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Alright, zipping up on that. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418/40 "2020-03-28T22:58:27Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Reading the list of animals, it looks like an Indiana Jones scene. It’s been said that the Chinese will eat anything with legs except a table. So will I. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-coincidence-that-both-early-2000s-sars-and-covid-19-both-came-from-china/850418.md?page=3)