# Is it a male-dominated world? Why or why not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 27, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563 "2018-01-27T02:30:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/101 "2018-01-29T18:55:02Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I am turning 50 in March. In Spain, while she wasn’t officially considered the husband’s “property” in the way a cow or a house would be (she couldn’t be bought and sold), the turning point that made the country realize that _la maté porque era mía_ (I killed 'cos she was mine) was not acceptable was the murder of [Ana Orantes](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Orantes) in December of 1997. > > That’s 20 years ago. I was making the tacit assumption that watchwolf spoke of the U.S. Otherwise, there are places in the world where even today a man beating a wife to death may go unprosecuted. But if he were referring to other countries then his being old enough to remember would be meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/102 "2018-01-29T19:49:18Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > Someone didn’t read the thread and my opening post throughly. I just read it again three times. I’m not sure what you mean. I was responding specifically to this: “Now i don’t deny that there are truly patriarchal societies out there. **But even so, most are barely strong these days.** ” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/103 "2018-01-29T20:15:25Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > Someone didn’t read the thread and my opening post throughly. We can read your posts. We can’t read your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/104 "2018-01-29T20:46:52Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > No, you are not. I’m 67 and this wasn’t true at any time in my life and wouldn’t have been true in my parent’s lifetime. I’m 51. In my lifetime Until 1969, she had to prove fault if she wanted a divorce (difficult to do if she didn’t have any money to hire someone to prove fault). Until 1973 there were states that required me to have my husband’s permission before I took a job. Until 1974 a married woman was not entitled to credit in her own name. Until 1981, my husband could take out a second mortgage on our house without informing me. Until 1993, there were states where there was no law criminalizing marital rape. Now, beating your wife was made illegal in all states by the late 1920s. But honestly was not really enforced terribly well until well into the 1980s (and arguably still isn’t). So “property” might be a strong work, but with very little economic agency, no access to credit or a job, and no way to get a divorce unless I could prove adultery, having to put out - willingly or not - at my husband’s demand, and domestic violence laws that were not well enforced - in parts of the country you might as well have been “property” during my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/105 "2018-01-29T22:35:34Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m 51. > > In my lifetime > > Until 1969, she had to prove fault if she wanted a divorce (difficult to do if she didn’t have any money to hire someone to prove fault). > Until 1973 there were states that required me to have my husband’s permission before I took a job. > Until 1974 a married woman was not entitled to credit in her own name. > Until 1981, my husband could take out a second mortgage on our house without informing me. > Until 1993, there were states where there was no law criminalizing marital rape. > > Now, beating your wife was made illegal in all states by the late 1920s. But honestly was not really enforced terribly well until well into the 1980s (and arguably still isn’t). > > So “property” might be a strong work, but with very little economic agency, no access to credit or a job, and no way to get a divorce unless I could prove adultery, having to put out - willingly or not - at my husband’s demand, and domestic violence laws that were not well enforced - in parts of the country you might as well have been “property” during my lifetime. This is true, and absolutely irrelevant to my comment. I quoted one line: > [@watchwolf49](#): > > Even I’m old enough to remember when a man’s wife was considered his personal property … and if he wanted to beat her to death then that was his own affair … and none of ours … Not a single thing you wrote has anything to do with beating a wife to death with no consequences. So I assume you have to agree with me that watchwolf’s comment is simply not true when applied to the U.S. in our lifetimes. Yes or no? ---
**Author:** ![betterlifethroughchemistry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/betterlifethroughchemistry/32/3094_2.png) [@betterlifethroughchemistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betterlifethroughchemistry)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/106 "2018-01-30T05:18:56Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > I’m surprised that nobody (unless I missed it) mentioned that women have earned more bachelor degrees in the USA (and in the UK, as well as several other countries) for at least the past ten years. In fact, there’s an article in the NYT today discussing this and the fact that there are more women in the entering class at Oxford this year than there are men. > > This doesn’t resolve issues with hiring or pay for women, but it’s certainly one area in which males are no longer “dominant.” Advanced degrees are a different story. > > If you choose your criteria carefully, you can certainly make an argument for exactly the opposite of your statement/question. It’s funny you mention this, I’m mid-50’s and work for specialty chemical company. In the last four years, we’ve hired three new chemists, entry level-type, two right out of school and one with 1 year experience…all are women…and it’s not like we set out to be enlightened or trying to empower women in the sciences, no, we interviewed probably 10 - 12 people per position, and the overwhelming majority (like 80%) of the applicants were female…we just picked the best and ones we felt would fit in well…they’ve been great…it’s just different from my experience in coming from what was a male-dominated field (certainly in our little corner of the chemical universe)…and even funnier or more striking is the fact we deal with female engineers/chemists in our customer base more and more… It’s just an limited observation based on my experience…maybe it’s a regional thing as to where we are located, and certainly just a micro-observation given the overall scope of the scientific and industrial community, but we’ve found the degreed millennial women we’ve hired and work with as customers are more focused, more mature, certainly more detail-oriented and better team players than most of the guys we’ve encountered… And all three are in relationships with guys with little or no college experience…not judging, I don’t care, they are all good guys, it’s just very different from where I came from just 30 some years ago… ---
**Author:** ![betterlifethroughchemistry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/betterlifethroughchemistry/32/3094_2.png) [@betterlifethroughchemistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betterlifethroughchemistry)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/107 "2018-01-30T05:36:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not in the US. However in Louisiana in 1978, my new wife - who was making far more money than me - could not get a check cashing card at the grocery because the Head and Master Law said that I owned all the property in the family, and she had no say in its disposition. > It got repealed, but not without complaints by some legislators who said that got married under that law and they damn well expected things to stay that way. I thought you were kidding when you posted that…yikes, a quick Google search and you were NOT…I was about to graduate HS when LA was the last state to overturn those laws and I was not aware they existed in my lifetime until now… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/108 "2018-01-30T07:38:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I was making the tacit assumption that watchwolf spoke of the U.S. Otherwise, there are places in the world where even today a man beating a wife to death may go unprosecuted. But if he were referring to other countries then his being old enough to remember would be meaningless. Ok, so “the world” equals “the US” excluding several areas such as those parts where **Tokyo Bayer** grew up. Really? **betterlife** (mind if I call you betterlife?), back in 2001 I answered an ad for two “lab technicians, fourth shift; trade school or higher required”. They had been expected guys with trade school training; they got 14 women with bachelor’s or higher in STEM fields. I’ve been working in consulting since 2004 and those of my clients which have relatively high amounts of female workers are simply those which do not discriminate. If some companies in the field classify any “Mary” in the round fileholder and you don’t, you end up getting a lot of good candidates called Mary. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/109 "2018-01-31T00:00:26Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Ok, so “the world” equals “the US” excluding several areas such as those parts where **Tokyo Bayer** grew up. Really? A search finds no other mention of Tokyo Bayer in this thread. What are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/110 "2018-02-02T04:06:09Z")
A correction to my above post about _The Lord of the Rings_ squeaking past the Bechdel Test: One of the requirements is that both women who talk with each other have to be named. Neither of the women Ioreth spoke with is named. So ::descending slide whistle glissando:: _LotR_ actually just fails the Bechdel. Came so close, too. ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/111 "2018-02-02T06:22:13Z")
Beyonce is also one of the most powerful celebrities of all time, y’all sure still as male-dominated as they come? ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/112 "2018-02-02T06:29:54Z")
I don’t think right away that male dominance is an oxymoron, because men like to assert themeselves. But on the other hand is also a hyperbole the way is used. The most patriarchal of times were like I pointed the Roman Empire or during Industrial Revolution[technically So to speak] Meanwhile on the other hand women can get more medical procedures and health options. Because women’s health is seen as a universally promoted thing, but on the other hand men’s health is still viewed helpless. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/113 "2018-02-02T06:50:46Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > I don’t think right away that male dominance is an oxymoron, because men like to assert themeselves. > But on the other hand is also a hyperbole the way is used. The most patriarchal of times were like I pointed the Roman Empire or during Industrial Revolution[technically So to speak] > > Meanwhile on the other hand women can get more medical procedures and health options. Because women’s health is seen as a universally promoted thing, but on the other hand men’s health is still viewed helpless. Anecdote alert! Many men are stubborn and refuse to go to get “check ups” so maybe its becoming casually accepted as “helpless” I know many men like this, including myself. Instead of dealing with going to a doctor once, I gave myself some slapdash stitches with some ice cubes and a needle and thread (for clothes), not the best idea, actually one of the worst i’ve ever pursued but it worked and the scar is small. The point is, some of us will do anything to not be in a hospital. It has to be an immediate issue, like when a guy I know drove himself to the hospital while having a minor heart attack. Women on the other hand, as I’ve noticed, will be on time, every time and go to every single doctors appointment, without fail and don’t take excessive risk for the most part. Women’s health may be promoted more because of this. Like marketing. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/114 "2018-02-02T07:49:14Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > {…} Meanwhile on the other hand women can get more medical procedures {…} I know, right, I keep asking my doctor for a PAP smear and an IUD and he won’t give me either . . . just because I have a penis!!! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/115 "2018-02-02T08:09:03Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I know, right, I keep asking my doctor for a PAP smear and an IUD and he won’t give me either . . . just because I have a penis!!! > > CMC fnord! You don’t think men are discriminated in healthcare though? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/116 "2018-02-02T08:11:03Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > You don’t think men are discriminated in healthcare though? I don’t know, you seem to think you do . . . _make_ your case! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/117 "2018-02-02T08:38:46Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > You don’t think men are discriminated in healthcare though? I’ve read that drug testing used to favor men, and perhaps still does. Pharmaceutical companies would recruit men for their drug trials because have just one gender meant one less variable in their test group that they’d have to account for, and it was assumed that a drug that worked for men would work for women, too. It’s only recently that that assumption has been questioned and found not to be as reliable as they’d hoped. On the other hand, women live longer than men, so you could argue that they’re getting better outcomes from the health-care system. I think you can come up with anecdotes on both sides of the question (whatever the question happens to be) and no one is in a position to really weigh them all objectively. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/118 "2018-02-02T12:47:50Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > Beyonce is also one of the most powerful celebrities of all time, y’all sure still as male-dominated as they come? I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I don’t know that that’s the best argument. 16th century England was certainly male dominated, but the most important person in it was Queen Elizabeth. ---
**Author:** ![Luciano700](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Luciano700](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Luciano700)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/119 "2018-02-02T17:26:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I don’t know that that’s the best argument. 16th century England was certainly male dominated, but the most important person in it was Queen Elizabeth. I am sure as shit the gender ratio was a huge difference so I mean lol. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563/120 "2018-02-02T17:53:09Z")
> [@Luciano700](#): > > I am sure as shit the gender ratio was a huge difference so I mean lol. What was the ratio back then, and why the “lol”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-male-dominated-world-why-or-why-not/807563.md?page=7)