# Is it a sin for Catholics to associate with non-Catholics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192 "2010-02-16T13:47:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/41 "2010-02-16T22:14:36Z")
Ah. For Jews, there is an obligation to say the Kaddish prayer every day for 30 days after the death of a spouse, child, or sibling, and for a year after the death of a parent. You can’t say Kaddish without a minyan (10 Jews). We have daily services so that people saying Kaddish can meet that obligation. I wondered if there was some sort of Catholic equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/42 "2010-02-16T22:19:15Z")
Catholic Mass… Boring? Where else can you get in calisthenics and hear the word of God? If you want a quick Catholic Mass go to St. Patrick’s Cathedral in NYC. Man oh man, when I was there a couple of years ago they held Sunday morning Mass every hour on the hour, complete with songs and homily. Now if they could just find a way to stop the tourists from coming in DURING MASS and taking flash pictures in the cathedral! ~Enright3 - Catholic… and loving it! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/43 "2010-02-16T22:23:53Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s just something some Catholics do. Not very many Catholics, either. My mom goes to daily Mass, and there are usually about 5-10 people there. At the same church, there are about 500 people at the weekend masses. Christianity does not require a minyan, or anything equivalent to it. Jesus says somewhere in the Gospels, “Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, I am there in their midst”, so if there’s a daily mass scheduled, the priest will go ahead and say it no matter how few there are present. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/44 "2010-02-16T22:25:45Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Since most weddings are on the weekend, though, most priests will tell those in attendance that they have met their mass obligation for the week. My experience is that the priest, if he mentions the subject at all, will state explicitly that attendance at the Nuptial Mass does **not** fulfil one’s mass obligation. > [@Anne Neville](#): > > OK, so they’re obligated to go to Mass once a week. Is there an obligation to go every day at some times, or for some people? Or is it just something some Catholics do or did, without being obligated to do it? This may come as a surprise, but some Catholics actually like going to mass, and do so more frequently than weekly. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/45 "2010-02-16T22:27:03Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > OK, so they’re obligated to go to Mass once a week. Is there an obligation to go every day at some times, or for some people? Or is it just something some Catholics do or did, without being obligated to do it? Catholics are obligated to attend mass on Sundays (or Saturday night) and certain other holy days of obligation. They are not obligated to go every day. It’s because of the third commandment that says Keep holy the sabbath day. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/46 "2010-02-16T22:32:42Z")
The legendary sung high mass - I never did have to sit through one - was reputed to take 3 hours. Not sure if the priests got singing lessons or if it was all acapela karaoke. Vatican II reduced the mass from about an hour in latin to 35 minutes of english, give or take a sermon. And… it sent everyone home smiling when the priest said “Go, the mass is ended.” and the congregation replied “Thanks be to God!” ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/47 "2010-02-16T22:44:25Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > I could be wrong, but I don’t think even attending non-Catholic (but Christian) worship services would be considered a sin. The eucharist would be seen as invalid (essentially meaningless) but attending the service, not sinful, I don’t think. It’s not clear to me whether you’re talking about the past or present, but decades ago it certainly was considered a sin. My grandfather sought (and was denied) permission from his parish priest to attend the funeral of his friend and business partner, who was Protestant. My grandfather had to stand outside the gates of the church during the ceremony. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/48 "2010-02-16T23:01:00Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > OK, so they’re obligated to go to Mass once a week. Is there an obligation to go every day at some times, or for some people? Or is it just something some Catholics do or did, without being obligated to do it? Someone told me that the Catholics who go every day are primarily those who converted from another religion. Excess of zeal, etc. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/49 "2010-02-16T23:15:21Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > Back in college, in my very, very Catholic hometown, I had a date with a Catholic Irish-American woman I met in a bar. The date was going quite well, until she asked me what parish I belonged to, assuming that I was Catholic just like everybody else. When I told her I wasn’t Catholic, her response was “It’s over. Take me home. NOW.” She didn’t utter another word. Maybe she was looking forward to you picking her up every Sunday morning for a Catholic mass date… ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/50 "2010-02-16T23:18:09Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Maybe she was looking forward to you picking her up every Sunday morning for a Catholic mass date… Catholics don’t go on mass dates. You’re thinking of the Unification Church. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/51 "2010-02-16T23:20:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Someone told me that the Catholics who go every day are primarily those who converted from another religion. Excess of zeal, etc. That may be, but at Mom’s church, it seems to be mostly the folks who grew up before VatII. In my mom’s case specifically, I gather that she got into the habit (pun retroactively intended) while she was briefly in the convent as a young woman. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/52 "2010-02-16T23:22:30Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > The legendary sung high mass - I never did have to sit through one - was reputed to take 3 hours. Nonsense. I go to one most Sundays. An hour and fifteen minutes is fairly standard. An hour and a half at the outside. > [@Tom Tildrum](#): > > Someone told me that the Catholics who go every day are primarily those who converted from another religion. Not in my experience. The daily mass goers I’ve known in various parishes are mostly ordinary ‘cradle’ Catholics: the elderly, people on their way to work, teachers at the local school etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/53 "2010-02-17T01:33:43Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > For Jews, there is an obligation to say the Kaddish prayer every day for 30 days after the death of a spouse, child, or sibling, and for a year after the death of a parent. Thought it was eleven months? _Avelut_ is indeed 12 months, but only in the first 11 is the Kaddish said. And of course, yearly thereafter on the parent’s _yahrzeit_. > [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > OK, so they’re obligated to go to Mass once a week. Is there an obligation to go every day at some times, or for some people? Or is it just something some Catholics do or did, without being obligated to do it? There are six precepts of the Church that Catholics are bound to observe: [ol] [li]To fast and abstain on the days appointed[/li][li]To receive the Eucharist during the Easter season[/li][li]To confess one’s sins during Lent (if serious sin is involved[/li][li]To attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation[/li][li]To obey the laws of the Church concerning matrimony[/li][li]To contribute to the support of the Church[/li][/ol] There are ten Holy Days of Obligation defined in canon law; in the United States, only six are applicable – the other four are always observed on the Sunday closest to their real date. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/54 "2010-02-17T01:53:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > There are ten Holy Days of Obligation defined in canon law; in the United States, only six are applicable – the other four are always observed on the Sunday closest to their real date. With the exception of Hawaii, where only two are applicable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/55 "2010-02-17T02:02:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > With the exception of Hawaii, where only two are applicable. True enough! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/56 "2010-02-17T02:29:55Z")
My parents (mother Catholic, father non-Catholic) were married in 1942 – pre-Vatican II, pre-ecumenism, pre-damn near everything. First off, remember that the bishop (and the local pastor) had some latitude in how they enforced the rules, so the customs could vary a little from place to place. They were married in Chicago. 1. My father had to take instructions in the Catholic faith. He wasn’t asked to convert, just receive instruction. 2. My mother had to sign a document saying she would raise the children to be Catholic. My father had to sign a document saying that he would not interfere with the children being raised Catholic. Note the subtle difference. 3. They were married in a church but “outside the rail” (i.e., in front of the communion rail rather than on the altar.) No Mass, just the exchange of vows. Ten minutes. Of course, back in those days, the only business a lay Catholic would have inside the rail was maybe to receive the sacrament of confirmation, and even then a lot of bishops didn’t do it that way. I know they had two witnesses, and maybe immediate family. I don’t know whether that was by their choice, or they were told that’s the way it would be. 1. A priest wasn’t (and still isn’t) required to marry anyone. It’s entirely possible individual priests would refuse to officiate a mixed marriage, or wouldn’t let the heathen spouse inside the church proper, but it wasn’t a rule. > [@](#): > > The legendary sung high mass - I never did have to sit through one - was reputed to take 3 hours. Not sure if the priests got singing lessons or if it was all acapela karaoke. I’ve been to them. The ones I’m thinking of are the concelebrated solemn Mass and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. That was a full-out, no holds barred big time religious service. You had different priests playing different roles, gold vestments, incense, lots of candles, a procession down the aisle, spillover to a side altar, and, of course, everything was sung. No Karaoke here. the priests did the whole thing from memory. Quite a spectacle, especially in the days of the Latin Mass. But three hours? Not a chance. 90 minutes, maybe 2 hours if it was done in a big church filled with people who were going to communion. Subtract the time invovled in distributing communion and I’ll bet the whole thing would’ve clocked in at 1 1/4 hours, tops. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/57 "2010-02-17T02:53:10Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > No, you do need to be baptized and I think (although I’ll defer to someone with more expertise) that is actually canon. So if you had water sprinkled over your head as a baby in a Baptist church - then became Buddhist, that’s good enough. But if you never got baptized at all, that’s a problem for having a sacramental marriage.\ Yeah, I’ve never been baptized. We just didn’t go there at all. > [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I believe (I could be wrong) that you would only have to agree that any children of the union be raised as Catholics. Hmm, that might have been a problem, too. This is making me glad that we had zero problems over this - it sounds like it could have been a lot hairier than it was. > [@Bricker](#): > > \ > There are six precepts of the Church that Catholics are bound to observe: > > [ol] > [li]To fast and abstain on the days appointed[/li][li]To receive the Eucharist during the Easter season[/li][li]To confess one’s sins during Lent (if serious sin is involved[/li][li]To attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation[/li][li]To obey the laws of the Church concerning matrimony[/li][li]To contribute to the support of the Church[/li][/ol]\ Yeah, Jim is _really_ lapsed. 🙂 That reminds me of an occurence; Jim and I were visiting a beautiful old Catholic church, and I was walking around everywhere. He seemed a little shocked when I walked right over the altar - apparently Catholics don’t do that. Us non-denominational pagan pantheists walk wherever we please. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/58 "2010-02-17T03:29:13Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > . He seemed a little shocked when I walked right over the altar - apparently Catholics don’t do that. Us non-denominational pagan pantheists walk wherever we please. 🙂 I don’t blame him. The altar is a raised table. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/59 "2010-02-17T03:40:23Z")
Quoth **Captain Amazing** : > [@](#): > > With the exception of Hawaii, where only two are applicable. Are all the others moved to the nearest Sunday in the Hawaii diocese, I take it? And I imagine that one of the Days of Obligation that stays on its own date is Christmas; what’s the other one? Quoth **kunilou** : > [@](#): > > Of course, back in those days, the only business a lay Catholic would have inside the rail was maybe to receive the sacrament of confirmation, and even then a lot of bishops didn’t do it that way. Wouldn’t altar boys go behind the rail, too? And, for that matter, all those involved in the maintenance of the church building itself: Everyone always forgets about the janitors. Now, of course, most churches don’t even have a communion rail, and there are plenty of lay folks who go up in that vicinity for various reasons. One of the major themes of Vatican II was getting the congregation more involved. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192/60 "2010-02-17T03:50:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Captain Amazing** :Are all the others moved to the nearest Sunday in the Hawaii diocese, I take it? And I imagine that one of the Days of Obligation that stays on its own date is Christmas; what’s the other one? Feast of the Immaculate Conception. That’s also the practice in the South Pacific Islands Conference. In spite of this, the Bishop of Honolulu is part of the United States Conference, and the diocese is part of the Province of San Francisco. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-a-sin-for-catholics-to-associate-with-non-catholics/529192.md?page=4)