# Is it actually required to dress like a cartoon character to practice before English courts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771 "2017-12-18T16:41:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/101 "2018-01-05T02:05:34Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I kind of think a ‘mighty warrior’ needs to be armed and fight the enemy. So I guess whether you consider him to count as one would depend on whether you think the bagpipes are a weapon… > **[Jack Churchill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill)** > > John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill, DSO & Bar, MC & Bar (16 September 1906 – 8 March 1996) was a British Army officer. Nicknamed "Fighting Jack Churchill" and "Mad Jack", he fought in the Second World War with a longbow, a basket-hilted Scottish broadsword, and a set of bagpipes. > Churchill was born in Colombo, British Ceylon, to Alec Fleming Churchill (1876–1961), later of Hove, East Sussex, and Elinor Elizabeth, daughter of John Alexander Bond Bell, of Kelnahard, County Cavan, Ireland, an... > [@](#): > > Lieutenant-Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill, DSO & Bar, MC & Bar (16 September 1906 – 8 March 1996), was a British Army officer who fought throughout the Second World War armed with a longbow, bagpipes, and a basket-hilted Scottish broadsword. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/102 "2018-01-05T02:09:41Z")
> [@j666](#): > > How else does one keep the riff-raff in its place? There’s some truth to that. Due to jurisdictional overlap, I practice the same law in two different courts: one where I gown/robe, and the other where I can wear jacket and pants. Quite simply, the riff-raff are less disruptive in the fancy dress court. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/103 "2018-01-05T21:21:04Z")
Oooh! Oooh! the tampon! tell’em about the tampon, **Mr Muffin**! ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/104 "2018-01-06T00:46:28Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16328371&postcount=27](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16328371&postcount=27) > [@](#): > > A number of prisoners were in the dock for the court to take pleas and schedule their next appearances. While the judge was speaking with one of the Crown prosecutors, one of the prisoners unzipped her prison jumpsuit, stuck her hand down her crotch, pulled out a bloody tampon, jumped up, grabbed one hand on the top of the dock’s protective glass and with the other beaned the poor judge in the forehead before the guard was able to impede the prisoner. The judge verbally flamed the prisoner and then adjourned to get cleaned up. A charge of assault was added to whatever it was the prisoner was there for in the first place. I don’t know what the outcome was, for she was not one of my clients. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/105 "2018-01-06T01:32:44Z")
That’s the riff-raff court, in case it wasn’t clear. 😉 I read an interview with a Florida judge who was on a tour in Canada. She was so impressed by the decorum in Canadian courts (not the riff-raff level) that she bought gowns out of her own pocket and required all lawyers appearing in front of her to wear them. She said it was remarkable how it created a greater level of calmness and respect amongst counsel. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/106 "2018-01-06T01:35:31Z")
There are also clear terms to use when referring to other counsel. You don’t say something like “my opponent.” Counsel appearing opposite you is “my friend.” If they’ve got a QC, they’re “my learned friend.” Counsel appearing on the same side as you are “my colleague” or “my learned colleague” if they’ve been QC-ified. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/107 "2018-01-06T01:46:57Z")
One of the nice things about practising in a small bar is going head to head in court against the same lawyers. Over the years, “my friend” is no longer just a polite phase. It takes on real meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/108 "2018-01-06T01:58:31Z")
"And do as adversaries at law: “Strive mightily, and eat and drink as friends.” (_Taming of the Shrew_) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/109 "2018-01-06T05:25:29Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > "And do as adversaries at law: > > “Strive mightily, and eat and drink as friends.” > > (_Taming of the Shrew_) I quote that to my students! ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/110 "2018-01-06T05:47:46Z")
In my jurisdiction, there are all sorts of behind the scenes rules to promote the idea of “learned friends” who oppose each other without personal hostility. No barrister couches her submissions on fact or law in terms that might be thought to represent a personal opinion. Thus, we say, “You might well conclude that X, Y and Z happened, and you might draw those conclusions for reasons A, B and C”. NOT “I think what happened is X, Y and Z, and I think that for reasons A, B and C”. It depersonalises the argument, and as a matter of advocacy, sounds less shrill and desperate somehow. And at lunch in the Bar common room, the rule is that no one sits at an empty table until all chairs at other tables are full. This is to promote meeting people and being convivial. Barristers do try to rise above the rancour of their clients’ battles. It is quite possible to do this and still be a steely and effective advocate. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/111 "2018-01-08T18:22:21Z")
It is strongly discouraged among lawyers here to say “I think Y” or “I believe my client when he says X,” but it’s not required. I like the common-room table rule a lot! Wish we did that. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/112 "2018-01-08T18:28:04Z")
Don’t you have Bar rooms in America? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/113 "2018-01-08T19:10:57Z")
In Ontario, Canada, it varries. Bar associations tend to have robing rooms, bar libraries, and common rooms w/without kitchens in Superior Court courthouses. Osgoode Hall (housing the Law Society of Ontario/Upper Canada and the Court of Appeal for Ontario) used to have a lawyer’s dining room with a chef and staff, but that has now been leased out as a concession that is open for public use. At the other end of the extreme was the community hall in Fort Hope that, before it was burned to the ground by someone, was used by the Ontario Court of Justice circuit court about once a month, and which did not have a washroom. One of my career WTF moments was being in Thunder Bay in court when a person was convicted for pissing on the back-alley wall of a TBay dive bar after closing time, when the previous day I and other court officers had been pissing against the exterior wall in Fort Hope. Our shiny new courthouse in Thunder Bay has two full dining rooms in judge terriorty (but not chefs), so that judges can lunch together each day. Lawyers tend to head back to their offices, or step across the street to a restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/114 "2018-01-11T04:30:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It is strongly discouraged among lawyers here to say “I think Y” or “I believe my client when he says X,” but it’s not required. It is required in Canada, at least for Crowns. The Supreme Court has held that a Crown who vouches personally for the value of the testimony of a witness has over-stepped the line between advocate and partisan, and the inevitable appeal will be allowed. > [@Rand J.](#): > > Many, if not the majority of, jurors acting, it may be, for the first time, unacquainted with the language and proceedings of courts, and with no precise appreciation of the role of the prosecution other than as being associated with government, would be extremely susceptible to the implications of such remarks. So to emphasize a neutral attitude on the part of Crown representatives in the investigation of the facts of a crime is to put the matter to unsophisticated minds as if there had already been an impartial determination of guilt by persons in authority. Little more likely to colour the consideration of the evidence by jurors could be suggested. It is the antithesis of the impression that should be given to them: they only are to pass on the issue and to do so only on what has been properly exhibited to them in the course of the proceedings. (Unfortunately, the relevant passage from the Crown’s submissions to the jury is in French, so I’ve not quoted it, but what he said was that as Crown prosecutor it was his duty to review the police evidence and he could personally assure the jury that they could rely on it because of their professional neutrality. It was the fact that the Crown was personally vouching for the testimony that fatally tainted his case.) Justice Rand’s decision is also the leading case on the duty of a Crown prosecutor: > [@](#): > > It cannot be over-emphasized that the purpose of a criminal prosecution is not to obtain a conviction, it is to lay before a jury what the Crown considers to be credible evidence relevant to what is alleged to be a crime. Counsel have a duty to see that all available legal proof of the facts is presented: it should be done firmly and pressed to its legitimate strength but it must also be done fairly. The role of prosecutor excludes any notion 'of winning or losing; his function is a matter of public duty than which in civil life there can be none charged with greater personal responsibility. It is to be efficiently performed with an ingrained sense of the dignity, the seriousness and the justness of judicial proceedings. [_Boucher v. The Queen_, [1955] SCR 16.](https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/2741/index.do) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/115 "2018-01-11T04:31:52Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Don’t you have Bar rooms in America? None in my province. We have too small a bar and especially too small a barrister’s bar to warrant the cost. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2018, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771/116 "2018-01-11T05:33:19Z")
My courthouse has a lawyers’ lounge, just with a table, some chairs and a bathroom I think, but it’s not used all that much. Most American courthouses IME lack them entirely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-actually-required-to-dress-like-a-cartoon-character-to-practice-before-english-courts/804771.md?page=5)