# Is it all about the demographic shift? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337 "2022-03-19T14:39:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/81 "2022-03-27T04:19:45Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > What do you mean by “pretending race doesn’t exist and isn’t a factor is not going to make this problem go away”? Exactly which problem are you referring to? America is heavily polarized. the root cause of that polarization is racial in nature. white people angry and afraid of brown people and immigrants are growing in power and changing the country. the great replacement theory basically. there are also religious divisions too but it’s mostly racial from what I can tell. for example, controlling for religion only mildly removes the urban vs rural divide. controlling for racial attitudes removes 3/4 of the divide. As a country we aren’t brave enough to openly admit to the fact that we’re like this, so people get upset when you discuss it and want to pretend our issues are just due to economic stratification. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/82 "2022-03-27T04:28:18Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > As a country we aren’t brave enough to openly admit to the fact that we’re like this, so people get upset when you discuss it and want to pretend our issues are just due to economic stratification. It’s true the US doesn’t have a good track record on race. But I also think some people want to make race the main focus of political divisions. I don’t agree that’s helpful or accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/83 "2022-03-27T08:31:39Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I don’t agree that’s helpful or accurate. Helpful? No, it’s downright agonizing. But it’s the most accurate thing I know. If I get only four letters to summarize what’s dead wrong about the U.S. today, those four will be R-A-C-E. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/84 "2022-03-27T16:59:57Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > > > As a country we aren’t brave enough to openly admit to the fact that we’re like this, so people get upset when you discuss it and want to pretend our issues are just due to economic stratification. > > It’s true the US doesn’t have a good track record on race. But I also think some people want to make race the main focus of political divisions. I don’t agree that’s helpful or accurate. it may not be helpful but it is accurate. tribalism is deeply ingrained in human psychology. I don’t know what can be done to improve the situation, but race is what is behind America’s polarization and march towards fascism. even if we can’t fix or improve it, we’re better off being honest about what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/85 "2022-03-27T17:33:15Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > But I also think some people want to make race the main focus of political divisions. The problem is that some people absolutely refuse to discuss race as the cause of political divisions. That is neither helpful nor accurate. It instead inflames and spreads disinformation. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/86 "2022-03-27T18:02:13Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The problem is that some people absolutely refuse to discuss race as the cause of political divisions. That is neither helpful nor accurate. It instead inflames and spreads disinformation. I agree. Refusing to acknowledge that racism exists can’t help fix some deep-rooted problems that must be addressed here in the US. But I’m not sure if race is always the main cause of political divisions. I don’t think we should ignore the others factors. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/87 "2022-03-27T18:25:35Z")
Since absolutely nobody is ignoring the other factors, I’m not sure how that’s relevant to the issue of race being primary. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/88 "2022-03-27T18:28:18Z")
It’s a lot easier for Latinos (especially light-skinned ones) to regard themselves as white than for any black folk to do likewise. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/89 "2022-03-27T19:29:44Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Since absolutely nobody is ignoring the other factors, I’m not sure how that’s relevant to the issue of race being primary. I don’t agree. I think there is a significant urban/rural political divide that is being ignored by by politicians like Hilary Clinton. I don’t think it’s just about race. Resource extraction, way of life, taxes, crime, etc. also come into play. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/90 "2022-03-27T20:05:34Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > I don’t agree. I think there is a significant urban/rural political divide that is being ignored by by politicians like Hilary Clinton. I don’t think it’s just about race. Resource extraction, way of life, taxes, crime, etc. also come into play. No matter what evidence is presented to you to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/91 "2022-03-27T20:29:48Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > It’s a lot easier for Latinos (especially light-skinned ones) to regard themselves as white than for any black folk to do likewise. Right. That’s why Latinos have moved more to the Republican Party than Black people have. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/92 "2022-03-27T21:34:54Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > No matter what evidence is presented to you to the contrary. I would be more than willing to read evidence to the contrary if you’d be willing to post some links. Especially with respect to Democrats actually addressing rural concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/93 "2022-03-27T21:39:45Z")
The “urban/rural” divide is mythology. Or more properly it is the RESULT of racism among less educated whites. There are several posts in this very thread providing the evidence you are asking for. Just before the hijack about where the Midwest us. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/94 "2022-03-28T16:45:39Z")
Well you’re the one making a claim that the Democrats ignore rural concerns. I think the cite is needed from you on that. We can’t prove the negative of your positive claim. It seems to me much of the Build Back Better stuff would help rural people as well as urban. Democratic policies are to help everyone. I can’t think of any Democratic policy designed to hurt rural people. Plenty of GOP policies hurt rural people, just as they hurt almost everyone else aside from the wealthy and powerful. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/95 "2022-03-29T14:21:20Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Democratic policies are to help everyone. I can’t think of any Democratic policy designed to hurt rural people. It hurts the rural people who judge their own self worth based on how much worse someone else has it. As other people’s condition is improved, those people feel diminished in comparison. Equality feels like oppression. > [@Airbeck](#): > > Plenty of GOP policies hurt rural people, just as they hurt almost everyone else aside from the wealthy and powerful. Yes, and they are fine with that, as long as those policies are sold as hurting _other_ people even more. ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/96 "2022-04-09T22:46:18Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > The “urban/rural” divide is mythology. Or more properly it is the RESULT of racism among less educated whites. There are several posts in this very thread providing the evidence you are asking for. Just before the hijack about where the Midwest us. Why can’t we just have an intelligent discussion on topics, instead of bringing in “mythology”? Also, since this thread is about demographic shift, the discussion about the demographics of Pennsylvania seems relevant. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Since absolutely nobody is ignoring the other factors, I’m not sure how that’s relevant to the issue of race being primary. It seems like US politicians are ignoring the other factors. > [@Airbeck](#): > > Well you’re the one making a claim that the Democrats ignore rural concerns. I think the cite is needed from you on that. We can’t prove the negative of your positive claim Why do you want to prove the negative of my position? Let’s just discuss. [This BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55816229) talks about both sides of Biden rescinding the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline in 2021. It seems like political ideology (e.g. reduce carbon footprint) doesn’t always consider the effects of those policies on some people’s ability to feed their family. It works both ways, because workers concerned with feeding their families aren’t concerned that humans are contaminating our planet and destabilizing our climate, or worse. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/97 "2022-04-09T23:23:45Z")
> [@EastUmpqua](#): > > It seems like political ideology (e.g. reduce carbon footprint) doesn’t always consider the effects of those policies on some people’s ability to feed their family. It works both ways, because workers concerned with feeding their families aren’t concerned that humans are contaminating our planet and destabilizing our climate, or worse. Absolutely! As long as jobs are created, any business can do anything! That’s been the American Way for two centuries! There’s always only one choice and it’s whatever business says! The future can fuck itself! Now is all that matters! Hey kids, so you’re going to live in a disaster-filled hellhole for the rest of your lives! What did you want us to do? We could have said something, but it would have meant less money for oil corporations! Remember, anybody who tries to make life better for you is the enemy and must be stomped into the ground! What? No, I’m not totally insane. I told you. This is the American Way! ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2022, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/98 "2022-04-09T23:58:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That’s been the American Way for two centuries! There’s always only one choice and it’s whatever business says! The future can fuck itself! Now is all that matters! Hey kids, so you’re going to live in a disaster-filled hellhole for the rest of your lives! What did you want us to do? We could have said something, but it would have meant less money for oil corporations! Remember, anybody who tries to make life better for you is the enemy and must be stomped into the ground! What? No, I’m not totally insane. I told you. This is the American Way! This seems dystopian. There is still a chance humans can survive our transition to technology. But we make bad choices. We have to limit fossil fuel consumption, but then there’s [this Reuters article](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-wind-energy-company-pleads-guilty-killing-150-eagles-2022-04-07/). I’m not willing to give up yet. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/99 "2022-04-10T01:11:38Z")
Wow! Gosh! OMG! 150 eagles killed! And the company’s not doing anything about it except spending “as much as $27 million on efforts to prevent more deaths.” Good thing we have fossil fuels! > **[New research finds 1M deaths in 2017 attributable to fossil fuel combustion -...](https://source.wustl.edu/2021/06/new-research-finds-1m-deaths-in-2017-attributable-to-fossil-fuel-combustion/)** > > An international team of researchers, including engineering faculty at Washington University in St. Louis, has determined what sources contribute to pollution and the health effects they have on global, regional and smaller scales. > **[Deaths from fossil fuel emissions higher than previously thought](https://seas.harvard.edu/news/2021/02/deaths-fossil-fuel-emissions-higher-previously-thought)** > > Fossil fuel air pollution responsible for more than 8 million people worldwide in 2018 > **[Fossil Fuels Kill Nearly 9 Million Annually, More Than Twice Previous...](https://www.ecowatch.com/fossil-fuels-air-pollution-deaths-2650416201.html)** > > Burning fossil fuels kills nearly 9 million people worldwide and an estimated 350,000 in the U.S. every year, according to a new study by scientists from Harvard and three British universities. The staggering death toll is more than double the WHO's... And they create jobs! ---
**Author:** ![EastUmpqua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eastumpqua/32/6025_2.png) [@EastUmpqua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EastUmpqua)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337/100 "2022-04-10T18:13:54Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Wow! Gosh! OMG! 150 eagles killed! And the company’s not doing anything about it except spending “as much as $27 million on efforts to prevent more deaths.” I mean that we make bad choices. We burn fossil fuels without regard to consequences. We pollute our drinking water with [endocrine disruptors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptor). We split atoms into toxic forms with a long half-life. Then a reputable source like Reuters writes an article about a wind-farm company not getting a _permit_ to kill eagles. We make bad choices, but I’m not willing to give up yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-all-about-the-demographic-shift/961337.md?page=4)