# Is it almost impossible for a band to sound good with a bad drummer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [July 20, 2024, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491 "2024-07-20T12:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/21 "2024-07-20T19:53:56Z")
I go to jam nights a few times a week. It’s a situation where random musicians get up on guitar, bass, drum, keys, or whatever - a trombone if you have one. About 15% of the jams are awesome - these are the jams where all the musicians are accomplished and can communicate with each other and know how to compliment each other. I.e. - they have jamming skills Another 50% of the jams are mediocre - these usually have at least a decent rhythm section that can play together, and at least one other person who can keep up. Another 25% kinda suck - ability aside, it’s usually attributed to people up there who can’t/won’t communicate musically so jamming skills are out the window. A full 10% of the jams are painful noise that if you have any musical ability and you get stuck in the middle of one you just pray for a quick death to the jam. A drummer all over the place, a bass player who doesn’t know what a groove is, one guitar player who only knows two notes and another who loves feedback and whammy bars and dynamics be damned. TL;DR - the lowest common denominator is the rhythm section. Without that - yes, a band sucks. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/22 "2024-07-20T20:01:07Z")
> [@Disinfectus](#): > > A drummer should be able to play with a click track, but some music is best recorded without one I remember, back in the '70s, a review of a band that was very polished, and the reviewer said “The drumming needs to be more analog.” (In the days before autotune or digital anything, that was a clever comment.) I’ve tried to find that review, or any hint of who wrote it, but I can’t… . eta: Took my now-wife to see Joan Armatrading, who I’d billed as a soulful folkie… first song started out like that, then the drummer went to town and turned it into Arena Rock. Who the hell was… “And on drums, Richie Hayward!” (From Little Feat. Certainly elevated the band, and the whole evening.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/23 "2024-07-20T20:17:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is a fake quote but it is a popular one that, when John Lennon was asked if Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world Lennon quipped that he wasn’t even the best drummer in the Beatles. I knew someone was gonna come up with that. But there is one beatles tune, where Ringo stomped out before so Paul was on drums- but when they did another recording for the 2nd half- Ringo was back. According to the music expert writing about it- Ringo is noticeably better than Paul. > [@scabpicker](#): > > Frank Beard was just fine for ZZ Top. There’s that Joke- everyone in ZZ Top has a beard. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/24 "2024-07-20T20:22:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There’s that Joke- everyone in ZZ Top has a beard. 🤪 Hehe, but the Oberheim DMX (and other drum machines) used on Eliminator are incapable of growing them. 🧔‍♀️ ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/25 "2024-07-20T20:43:08Z")
Another bassist here (tho I currently play upright bluegrass, so rarely w/ a drummer). I’m having a hard time getting my head around the idea of a band sounding good w/ a drummer who isn’t tight. My experience w/ “bad” drummers has mostly been w/ the WRONG drummer for the gig. My preference tends towards straight ahead rock w/ minimalist drumming, so I have been less than thrilled on my share of gigs with jazz drummers who wouldn’t stay off their freaking hi-hat… Plenty fine drummers for music other than the sort I was interested in playing. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/26 "2024-07-20T20:47:09Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > > [@Coriolanus](#): > > > > I definitely can’t think of any good/bad band examples of this. I’ve read that it was something of an effort to get Ringo away from a somewhat popular Liverpool band to join the Beatles. And this after the Beatles had dismissed Pete Best who probabably was not really good though he had some kind of post-Beatle career (perhaps based on having been a Beatle). > > I’ll try to find a clip of Best drumming that I heard on another forum last month: > > [https://youtu.be/\_CQS6DAePd8?si=ficSSTi-Lz\_QckC-](https://youtu.be/_CQS6DAePd8?si=ficSSTi-Lz_QckC-) > > Yeah, he was pretty bad, even after adjusting for the extremely lo-fi nature of the recording. I know _nothing_ about music but I can tell that’s bad. And it sound like he’s playing to some other song entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/27 "2024-07-21T01:01:51Z")
The White Stripes. Meg White isn’t an awful drummer, but she’s not a terrific one either. Jack White composed terrific songs around her limited drumming and sounded amazing for it. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/28 "2024-07-21T01:54:10Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > The White Stripes That’s a good example of an exception I agree with. Pat Metheny left some room with “_almost_ impossible.” Also with The Beatles I’m pretty sure Stu Sutcliffe’s main reason for being in the band was he had a van and could pay the petrol money. So that was one way I could see a band even _having_ a poor drummer - he or she has a van, maybe bought the amps and perhaps some promoter connections. Otherwise pretty hard to get some gigs with half a competent rhythm section no matter who you’ve got out front. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/29 "2024-07-21T02:09:46Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > An interesting case is Keith Moon on “Won’t get fooled again”… he seems to hold it together! > Did Pete do a lot of studio trickery to pull those drums into shape? From what I’ve read, Moon’s drum tracks had to be heavily edited on some of their later albums with him. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/30 "2024-07-21T02:15:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > From what I’ve read, Moon’s drum tracks had to be heavily edited on some of their later albums with him The song that comes to mind is “[Music Must Change](https://youtu.be/ROG9llPP9qE?feature=shared)”. Keith couldn’t play in 6/8 time, so Pete replaced his part with footsteps. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/31 "2024-07-21T03:41:17Z")
Golly, it almost sounds like Tommy Smothers joke about Keith Moon had a ring of truth to it. Yet The Who never sounded as good after “Who Are You”. Not sure where I’d put Carl Palmer yet he and Emerson cobbled together a pretty good “rhythm section” Rush was right not to go on without Neil Peart and Led Zeppelin absolutely could not continue without John Bonham. Steely Dan stopped touring, became a studio band and thus Denny Dias and Skunk Baxter left. Yet from Pretzel Logic all the way through Fagen’s first solo album he had Jeff Porcaro’s absolutely phenomenal talent. Of course none of the above is about bad drummers so I’ll cease hijacking a thread where I was the OP. I do reckon that Ginger Baker and Pat Metheny were correct and if Keith Moon was “sloppy” he was the really good kind of sloppy. Still I’m interested in hearing more instances like the White Stripes ---
**Author:** ![Disinfectus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/disinfectus/32/11085_2.png) [@Disinfectus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disinfectus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/32 "2024-07-21T08:39:10Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Yet from Pretzel Logic all the way through Fagen’s first solo album he had Jeff Porcaro’s absolutely phenomenal talent. Not entirely true. Porcaro did not play on The Royal Scam, nor Aja - both of which were after Pretzel Logic. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/33 "2024-07-21T11:33:04Z")
I stand corrected. And only Night by Night and Parker’s Band on Pretzel Logic so I guess Katy Lied was his pinnacle with that band. He also played on the song FM (no static at all) and just the title track of Gaucho where Becker & Fagen also began using a drum machine. He’s on much but not all off Nightfly where there is a live drummer listed for each track yet I wonder how much Fagen used a machine there. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/34 "2024-07-21T13:59:02Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Also with The Beatles I’m pretty sure Stu Sutcliffe’s main reason for being in the band was he had a van and could pay the petrol money. Supposedly Bill Wyman got into the Stones because he had a spare amplifier? Or so the story goes… ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/35 "2024-07-21T14:02:22Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Billy Kreutzman had been playin’ in the band (Grateful Dead) since he was a teenager and they didn’t really really need to pair him up with Mickey Hart though that has worked out well. Having precious little of any _real_ value to add, here, may I be permitted a small indulgence? [![Google Photos](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/AP1GczP69Fpr1LX6zly5ot7VYzu1sl4BEphA8sUCbmPJSXEelRCR_4YA8Ja8SgbMB3zRbUg0LOUHw5EFCNdbivOn4iUfogz9-udClpa086mRCIWdX_GRr84=w600-h315-p-k "New item by neil0502") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/ddbsLf1f7VWTdzNk6) My wife, Billy, me. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/36 "2024-07-21T15:04:55Z")
John Mayall did have a version of the Bluesbreakers that had no drummer at all. They did have a percussion solo, doing what would now be called beatboxing (it was billed as “mouth percussion”) ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/37 "2024-07-21T15:31:30Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > My wife, Billy, me. Billy looks thrilled … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/38 "2024-07-21T16:40:00Z")
I’ve always heard that one of the reasons the Beatles let Pete Best in was that his mother would let them rehearse in her house. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/39 "2024-07-21T18:23:05Z")
Finally! A thread about _ME!_ ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2024, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/40 "2024-07-21T19:50:23Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > John Mayall did have a version of the Bluesbreakers that had no drummer at all. > > They did have a percussion solo, doing what would now be called beatboxing (it was billed as “mouth percussion”) That was the “Turning Point” album, and the song was “Room To Move”. (Chicka chicka what?) [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zLp0AsKXMEs/hqdefault.jpg "John Mayall - Room to Move (The Turning Point, 1970)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLp0AsKXMEs) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491.md?page=3)