# Is it almost impossible for a band to sound good with a bad drummer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [July 20, 2024, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491 "2024-07-20T12:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![saucywench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@saucywench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saucywench)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/41 "2024-07-22T03:36:52Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Golly, it almost sounds like Tommy Smothers joke about Keith Moon had a ring of truth to it. What was the joke? ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/42 "2024-07-22T04:05:15Z")
> What was the joke? When The Who played the Smothers Brothers show and is chatting with the band after they played My Generation, Tommy Smothers said of Keith Moon “And over here’s the guy who plays the sloppy drums…” ---
**Author:** ![saucywench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@saucywench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saucywench)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/43 "2024-07-22T04:06:48Z")
LOL I was really young when I watched that show. Thank you ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/44 "2024-07-22T11:05:03Z")
Mo Tucker may have been the right drummer for the Velvet Underground, but she was hardly a great drummer in the conventional sense. And yet the Velvets went on to be one of the most influential and revered bands of all time. So, yes, it is possible to be a great band with a bad drummer, depending on your definition of “bad”. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/45 "2024-07-22T11:14:00Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Mo Tucker may have been the right drummer for the Velvet Underground, but she was hardly a great drummer in the conventional sense. > > And yet the Velvets went on to be one of the most influential and revered bands of all time. So, yes, it is possible to be a great band with a bad drummer, depending on your definition of “bad”. - That sounds more like “competent” rather than bad. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/46 "2024-07-22T15:12:15Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That sounds more like “competent” rather than bad. Most bands wouldn’t have called her competent either. Lou Reed liked her because she followed him, rather than set a beat. That’s a bad thing to do in most bands, but it worked for the VU. She wouldn’t have worked in most bands, but in one specific band she did well. That’s my point; bands are the sum of their parts. Sometimes an objectively bad player can work _in context_. I mean, there are certainly people who will tell you that the Velvet Underground were terrible musicians, and they may be right in a purely technical sense. But it doesn’t matter, because they were the right band for Lou Reed’s songs in that era, and the fact that they’re, you know, _legendary_ certainly shows that being creative is what really matters. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/47 "2024-07-22T15:24:38Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > When The Who played the Smothers Brothers show and is chatting with the band after they played My Generation, Tommy Smothers said of Keith Moon “And over here’s the guy who plays the sloppy drums…” It’s the scene that opens the movie “The Kids Are Alright” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/OiSKu7SbGNQ/hqdefault.jpg "The Who My Generation Smothers Brothers, 1967") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiSKu7SbGNQ) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/48 "2024-07-22T16:27:01Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Tommy Smothers said of Keith Moon “And over here’s the guy who plays the sloppy drums…” Pete Townsend: But, for many years I was the timekeeper. People say that I’m a better rhythm guitarist than a lead guitarist, that’s because for 20 years I had to keep time. I was the drummer. From [here](https://ultimateclassicrock.com/pete-townshend-interview-2017/?trackback=fbshare_flat_3&trackback=tsmclip) (which is overall very complimentary about Moon). Not the first time I’ve heard that from Townsend - I remember one interview where he noted that when he was much younger he actually didn’t think Moon was that good because he refused to keep time. He came around to his special talents, but did always seem very slightly put out about having to do one of his jobs. Then again, he’s always been a bit of a grumpy gus 😀. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/49 "2024-07-22T17:01:26Z")
Several people in the industry and/or associated with the production of The Who’s albums have commented that Moon wanted to drum (with) the vocals. This becomes apparent when you listen for it and is one of the endearing things I enjoy about his drumming. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/50 "2024-07-22T20:03:56Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > The White Stripes. Meg White isn’t an awful drummer, but she’s not a terrific one either. Jack White composed terrific songs around her limited drumming and sounded amazing for it. I think this also applies to Patrick Carney of The Black Keys. Pat isn’t necessarily a bad drummer, but his style works for their music. Maybe a two-piece band is benefited from a drummer that zigs when other drummers would zag? ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/51 "2024-07-23T08:49:36Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > When The Who played the Smothers Brothers show and is chatting with the band after they played My Generation, Just watched the whole clip. So it was after they played a mimed version of “I can see for miles” then the “My Generation” they play after Smothers chats with them was a pre-recorded live version, though Moon blowing up his bass drum with presumably just a cherry bomb was of course “live”. He’d move up to M-80’s and even dynamite sticks (!) (perhaps what in the USA are known as “blockbusters”) to blow stuff up, especially hotel toilets. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/52 "2024-07-23T09:02:31Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > The song that comes to mind is “[Music Must Change](https://youtu.be/ROG9llPP9qE?feature=shared)”. Keith couldn’t play in 6/8 time, so Pete replaced his part with footsteps. I’ve read that by that point, none of their album tracks actually featured the entire band performing at once. Pete would record his demos where he’d sing and play guitar, bass, and keyboards alongside a drum machine, then the others would record their parts over the demo one at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/53 "2024-07-23T16:57:22Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > When The Who played the Smothers Brothers show and is chatting with the band after they played My Generation, Tommy Smothers said of Keith Moon “And over here’s the guy who plays the sloppy drums…” Then he sloppily used three times the explosives he should have and had cymbal parts flying around the studio and gave Townshend permanent hearing damage. > [@Coriolanus](#): > > even dynamite sticks (!) (perhaps what in the USA are known as “blockbusters”) to blow stuff up, especially hotel toilets. “Morality ain’t measured in a room He wrecked” Sure, Pete, it’s not like it was your hotel anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/54 "2024-07-23T18:16:34Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > _dynamite sticks_ perhaps what in the USA are known as “blockbusters” Just wanted to clarify that though he fancied (and sometimes overused) gunpowder/flash powder explosives and in some accounts the word “dynamite” is used - that if he ever used actual nitroglycerin dynamite in a hotel that he’d blow half of it away and probably kill people. The confusion likely comes from the unofficial hierarchy of cherry bombs → M80’s → M1000’s which are sometimes called “quarter sticks” yet they are no where near even a small fraction of a stick of dynamite in destructive power. An M1000 will certainly take out a toilet and as they use waterproof “hobby fuses” and are also fun to toss into an overground pool (JK) In that Smother Brother’s video, while the camera is shaking, you can hear Moon in some pain as cymbal shrapnel got him too. The legend is he bribed/got a stagehand drunk to load up for all that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/55 "2024-07-23T18:40:39Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > The song that comes to mind is “[Music Must Change](https://youtu.be/ROG9llPP9qE?feature=shared)”. Keith couldn’t play in 6/8 time, so Pete replaced his part with footsteps. Oddly, he plays in 6/8 on “Welcome” from Tommy. But, yeah, that seems to be the story about “Music Must Change.” I’m actually surprised Moon had difficulty with 6/8. I thought they had more stuff in triple meter, but I guess not. It’s not a hard time signature to play in at all. You just split your beats into 3 instead of 2. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/56 "2024-07-23T20:43:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oddly, he plays in 6/8 on “Welcome” from Tommy. But, yeah, that seems to be the story about “Music Must Change.” I’m actually surprised Moon had difficulty with 6/8. By the late '70s Moon had gained weight and was on a **lot** of tranquilizers. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/57 "2024-07-23T20:56:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m actually surprised Moon had difficulty with 6/8. Yeah, I don’t buy it. Now, if the assertion were that his escalating personal issues made it difficult to record _anything_ (or even show up), that I’d believe. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/58 "2024-07-28T20:59:01Z")
In the vid for the song - The Weight" for Playing for Change- [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ph1GU1qQ1zQ/maxresdefault.jpg "The Weight | Featuring Ringo Starr and Robbie Robertson | Playing For Change | Song Around The World") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph1GU1qQ1zQ) Ringo- the drummer, asks what key. Key? Drums? ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/59 "2024-07-28T21:18:54Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Pete Townsend: > But, for many years I was the timekeeper. People say that I’m a better rhythm guitarist than a lead guitarist, that’s because for 20 years I had to keep time. I was the drummer. > > From [here](https://ultimateclassicrock.com/pete-townshend-interview-2017/?trackback=fbshare_flat_3&trackback=tsmclip) (which is overall very complimentary about Moon). Not the first time I’ve heard that from Townsend - I remember one interview where he noted that when he was much younger he actually didn’t think Moon was that good because he refused to keep time. He came around to his special talents, but did always seem very slightly put out about having to do one of his jobs. Then again, he’s always been a bit of a grumpy gus Also worth remembering that Townsend complained in all seriousness that Jimi Hendrix had stolen Pete’s licks. Talk about egocentric delusions. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2024, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491/60 "2024-07-28T22:04:18Z")
Spelling nitpick: it’s Towns_ **h** _end, with an h. [Peter Townsend](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Townsend_(RAF_officer)) (without an h) was an RAF pilot who had an affair with Princess Margaret. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-almost-impossible-for-a-band-to-sound-good-with-a-bad-drummer/1004491.md?page=4)