When you say “color” do you mean ethnic Filipinos being relatively light- or dark-skinned? That’s not something I’ve ever heard about the Philippines (not that I know a lot about it).
It sounds like maybe Filipinos hate cops like poor black Americans hate cops. You ever hear our saying, “Snitches get stitches”?
Interesting topic though, thanks for the info. Learning about criminal justice in other countries is a hobby of mine.
Having heard the “never talk to the police meme” before, but never having had it explained in such detail, reminded me of something that made me curious while watching several CSI type shows on TV: the suspect ALWAYS starts by giving various excuses, stories, tales etc. When caught in a lie, or as soon as they realize that the police are on to them, THEN they clam up and say " I want a lawyer". So much so that it is kind of implied that when someone asks for a lawyer, it probably means that they’re guilty.
So, have these people never heard that they shouldn’t talk to the police, are they deluded about their ability to talk their way out of it, or is is PURELY a TV construct to move the story along?
Curious, non-US minds (well, mind) want to know!!
I hardly have room in the closet for my jacket.
A friend, who is a long time cop, suggests lawyering up from the start. A cop knocks on my door and wants to ask me a few questions. I politely say, “as soon as my lawyer shows up”. Doing otherwise has absolutely no upside for me, as I’m innocent of any crime.
The upside for you is miniscule (a bad guy might get caught a little bit faster if you answer questions). However, everyone in your community experiences that same upside. A community in which everyone answers questions to the police forthrightly experiences a tremendous upside for everyone in the community, as criminals are caught faster throughout.
Another upside, of course, is that an attorney costs a few hundred bucks per consultation, right? If I’m being totally selfish, I’m still not going to grab my attorney every time a cop asks to speak to me, unless I have good reason to think I might be a suspect.
One possible exception. Your next door neighbor is suspect in his wife being missing. He told the police he used the shovel (in his truck) to plant apple trees in his yard the first week in April. The plastic bags and duct tape were used to cover the trees when the temps dropped.
You recall that they argued the last week in March, and that immigrants planted the trees.
And I’d happily discuss this with my lawyer present.
If the police were constantly showing up at my door, yeah I’d worry about money. In reality though, at least for me, we’re talking once or twice in a lifetime events.
Okay, there are some sophisticated criminals, but most criminals are not too smart and get themselves into avoidable trouble regularly. It’s long been baffling to me. I mean, do a little research into your trade, guys!
One thing I read in a law class that has stuck with me was an anecdote by a police officer that said he would regularly board Greyhound buses (Greyhound buses travel long distances) and ask passengers if he could search their bags. You may know that passengers transporting drugs or other contraband regularly take buses because airport security is much higher. Now, if you don’t have any contraband, that’s one thing (and I would SURE still refuse). But this cop estimated he’d asked 3000 people to search their bags and NOT ONE had refused. He had 0 probable cause and they could have just said no and that would be the end of it. But even the ones WITH contraband said okay. Obviously they didn’t feel like refusing was really an option, even though it really really was.
At ANY level do you know that the police are trying to make your life and mine safer and better??
Sure, most of them. Chicago has a long (and fortunately uncommon but still present) history, still ongoing, of pressuring or even torturing suspects into false confessions, just to get a conviction. So I’m not entirely sure why you think people should give up their rights on a whim if things look more serious than “which way did he go?!” or “are you OK?” or “do you know how fast you were going?”
And on a more likely outcome - I’m not going to agree to let a cop search my car for the hell of it and get busted because the sister-in-law we gave a ride to dropped some pills or pot in the back seat.
Hijack, but I’ve always wondered if this was legal. Lets say I get handcuffed and thrown in the back of the police car. If I maneuver my hands so that they are cuffed in front of me and not behind me, and that’s all (as in, I’m not trying to escape, only trying to be more comfortable), is that legal? Can they get me for additional charges if I simply shift my hands from behind to in front?
Pretty much this. This thread is quite an eye-opener; I had no idea there was such widespread mistrust of the police. In my worldview, the police are on my side. Why on earth would I not talk to them?
Sure. I also know that there are cops who do not always follow their own rules and regulations. My buddy (who is a cop) is actually sick of working with individuals like that and is eager to retire one day.
I’m not going to let a cop tear up my car while I stand by the side of the road humiliated and maybe too hot or cold or rained on, probably making me late to wherever I’m going. People often don’t think about the practical implications of a search. Why subject yourself to that when you don’t have to, even if you’re almost sure you have nothing to hide?
I have no idea, but are you a contortionist?
Any yet you’ll probably be at the head of the line pissed off that the cops can’t do more to keep your neighborhood safe.
There is a lot of room between ‘giving up ones right on a whim’ and ‘never talking to the police.’ I’m always surprised at those that won’t life a finger to help anyone else but want to the world to stop for them.
When my truck was stolen I refused to talk to those fucking pigs. Since my truck was never recovered this allowed me to buy a new one. Ha Ha Ha stupid fucking cops. I showed them.
My car was broken into/attempted stolen 3 times in less than 2 years and getting it fixed was not an expense that I could easily afford. I’m not pissed off at the cops for not doing enough to keep my former neighborhood safe. I’m pissed at the state of society in general that has people who are probably crackheads or something being so desperate for their next fix that they’ll cause me hundreds of dollars of damage to steal a stereo that they can probably pawn for about $10. Even the best-intentioned cop can do very little about that kind of thing. And giving the popo permission to search my stuff sure isn’t going to help anything.
As others have said, it really depends on the context. I’ve always been a law abiding citizen, but I’ve had more than my fair share of run-ins with over-zealous cops, and I’ve learned some of these lessons the hardway. A lot of this happened when I was a teenager and perhaps into my early twenties, but hasn’t happened since then, so I’m inclined to think most of it was just assumptions by cops thinking that a kid is necessarily up to no good. Fortunately, in the cases where they did violate my rights, I had witnesses.
Anyway, the key thing is to be respectful at all times. Say, sir or ma’am. Never voluntarily offer up information they didn’t ask for. As in, you get pulled over, don’t start yammering about speeding or not seeing a sign or only having a couple drinks, they may have pulled you over for your taillight being out and now you’ve just incriminated yourself. In general, if you can answer with a yes or no only, do so. If you’re even the least bit unsure about whether it might incriminate you, at the very least consider the minimal answer, if not asking for counsel.
Twice I’ve had cops insist on searching my car. One wanted to search for stolen property (absolutely no reason to think I had any and I didn’t), I refused, and when asked why, my answer was simply because it was within my rights. He wasn’t happy about it, but he had nothing to hold me on and had to let me go. Another time a cop wanted to search for drugs on a flimsy claim that he smelled them (again, obvious BS as I didn’t have any, and have never used any). I refused, he made physical threats and searched anyway, found nothing, and then bailed when I asked for his badge number. Sure, people have said that if I had nothing to hide, I should have let them, but at the same time, I had nothing to gain either. Yeah, I don’t think it’s likely they would plant evidence, and I shouldn’t be put in a place where I have to prove my innocence rather than them proving my guilt.
I’ve lived in my share of shitty neighborhoods before. I still want criminals and innocent folks alike to talk to lawyers for anything more than what I stated above. And I have absolutely never advocated that one should never ever ever talk to cops, and as I stated earlier, the video linked early on in the thread states a clear case from both a lawyer and a cop as to why you probably shouldn’t undergo an interview from a cop without representation.
I’m one of those boring, drive-the-speed-limit, nothing hidden in my closet types. Plus, I’m an Army officer’s brat and spent my formative years living on post, so respect for authority is hardwired into my programming.
My father, however, being a retired lawyer, has cautioned me that, should I ever be questioned by the police in anything other than a “routine” matter (such as some of the scenarios described above), my response should be “I will be happy to cooperate with you and answer your questions, but I must insist on the presence of my attorney.”
My opinion is unless the police in your area are known to be corrupt, you look like a criminal, or are a criminal, there is nothing wrong with talking to the police.