# Is it appropriate for news organizations to "fact check" books? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 18, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029 "2009-11-18T15:23:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/21 "2009-11-18T17:12:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Notice how nobody is being prevented from opening a thread about the “provable lies in her book”. Be my guest. > > Personally, I have about ZERO interest in anything she has to say. I wasn’t talking about this board, I was talking about the news media and the national dialogue in general. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/22 "2009-11-18T17:14:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Where do we draw the line? With people who have aspirations to the presidency? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/23 "2009-11-18T17:17:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Should be, anyway. The press, whether print, television or radio, has become a great big steno pool for politicians. “Objectivity” consists, apparently, of having two people with opposite viewpoints on or quoted, as being evenly authoritative, even if one is from the biology faculty of Harvard and the other is a nutcase with a creationist blog. > > I’d be perfectly happy if the press started doing their job and calling out factual error and/or lies, no matter which party is doing it. I’d be absolutely delirious with joy. The Dallas Morning News (newspaper) occasionally does fact checking on political ads, no matter who runs the ads. Sometimes these pieces are funny, and sometimes they’re enraging. But they are always interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/24 "2009-11-18T17:21:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Reporting is done by reporters. Fact checkers are used to check background facts in someone else’s reporting. Yes but the claim that Mrs. Palin has made is that > [@Sarah Palin](#): > > 11 AP reporters dedicating time and resources to tearing up the book [Fox News is repeating that](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/17/ap-turns-heads-devoting-reporters-palin-book-fact-check/): > [@Fox News](#): > > AP Turns Heads for Devoting 11 Reporters to Palin Book ‘Fact Check’ Mrs. Palin goes on to denigrate the AP for using “reporters” to fact check her book: > [@Sarah Palin](#): > > Imagine that. 11 AP reporters dedicating time and resources to tearing up the book, instead of using the time and resources to ‘fact check’ what’s going on with Sheik Mohammed’s trial, Pelosi’s health care takeover costs, Hasan’s associations, etc. Amazing. The OP even says > [@Mr. Moto](#): > > the AP is dedicating straight news reporters and researchers to the task of fact-checking Sarah Palin’s book Yet I can’t find anything from the AP themselves saying they have 11 reporters (or even 1 reporter) doing the fact checking. Where did this information come from? Anyone got a cite? ---
**Author:** ![Phatlewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a698b9/32.png) [@Phatlewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phatlewt)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/25 "2009-11-18T17:23:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I wasn’t talking about this board, I was talking about the news media and the national dialogue in general. [Andrew Sullivan has been tracking "The Odd Lies of Sarah Palin](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/11/the-odd-lies-of-sarah-palin-a-roundup.html) since September 2008. I’m sure that “Going Rogue” will add lots. \*IMHO, not all of the lies Sullivan lists are concrete, but many of them are simply contradictory to well established factual events. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/26 "2009-11-18T17:27:47Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > The Dallas Morning News (newspaper) occasionally does fact checking on political ads, no matter who runs the ads. Sometimes these pieces are funny, and sometimes they’re enraging. But they are always interesting. I’d expect that kind of integrity from Molly’s old paper. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/27 "2009-11-18T17:29:02Z")
Anyone who claims in clear defiance to the facts that the media, “make stuff up” had better be ready to have some scrutiny on her words. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/28 "2009-11-18T17:36:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’d expect that kind of integrity from Molly’s old paper. Molly Ivins was a lush who needed fact checking herself on a regular basis. And she wrote mostly for the defunct Dallas Times Herald, not the Dallas Morning News. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/29 "2009-11-18T18:12:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yet I can’t find anything from the AP themselves saying they have 11 reporters (or even 1 reporter) doing the fact checking. Where did this information come from? Anyone got a cite? From [http://www.ap.org/newsvalues/index.html](http://www.ap.org/newsvalues/index.html) > [@](#): > > In the 21st century, that news is transmitted in more ways than ever before – in print, on the air and on the Web, with words, images, graphics, sounds and video. But always and in all media, we insist on the highest standards of integrity and ethical behavior when we gather and deliver the news. > > That means we abhor inaccuracies, carelessness, bias or distortions. It means we will not knowingly introduce false information into material intended for publication or broadcast; nor will we alter photo or image content. Quotations must be accurate, and precise. It could just be on-the-job training for those 11 reporters: ‘How to identify inaccuracies, carelessness, bias, and distortions 101’. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/30 "2009-11-18T18:16:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yet I can’t find anything from the AP themselves saying they have 11 reporters (or even 1 reporter) doing the fact checking. Where did this information come from? Anyone got a cite? Yes. [One reporter got a byline, 10 others are credited as contributors.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091113/ap_on_el_pr/us_palin_book_fact_check) I don’t think a researcher would get credited as a “writer.” And to repeat my earlier statement, I don’t think a fact checker would be assigned to do this job because it is reporting. A fact checker, for publications that have them, checks background statements in a reporter’s work. [Here is the abstract of a New Yorker article by John McPhee about fact checkers.](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/02/09/090209fa_fact_mcphee) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/31 "2009-11-18T18:29:10Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Is it appropriate for news organizations to “fact check” books? > And if it is appropriate, should we expect this fact-checking to be applied across the board? > > I ask this because the AP is dedicating straight news reporters and researchers to the task of fact-checking Sarah Palin’s book, which seems to be a horrendous idea to me. In general, I agree that pointing out factual errors or any other flaws in a book is most appropriately done in a book review, not in a regular news article. “Sarah Palin said something inaccurate” hardly qualifies as news IMO, although apparently there are a number of editors who disagree with me. (Of course, book reviews can and should be published in the appropriate sections of newspapers, but they’re generally not the same as a straight news article.) However, I don’t understand what you mean by saying that “the AP is dedicating straight news reporters and researchers” to fact-checking _Going Rogue_. The only actual source we’ve seen here so far is **Marley23** ’s link to the [San Jose Mercury-News article](http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_13810300?nclick_check=1) under Calvin Woodward’s byline, a version of which (AFAICT) was also [printed in the New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/11/13/us/politics/AP-US-Palin-Book-Fact-Check.html), [in the New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/11/13/2009-11-13_fact_check_palins_book_goes_rogue_on_some_facts_.html), and elsewhere in the media. AFAICT, that adds up to one news article on the content of Palin’s book, attributed to one reporter, which was published in lots of different media sources because they apparently considered it newsworthy. It seems a bit hyperbolic to interpret that as meaning that the AP as an organization is “dedicating reporters and researchers to the task of fact-checking Palin’s book”. Is there more information that I’m not aware of about the AP doing this? Edit: shoulda previewed. Thanks, **Marley**. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/32 "2009-11-18T18:34:27Z")
CNN recently fact-checked an SNL skit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/33 "2009-11-18T18:35:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is classic deflection on Palin’s part, which is, in turn, a classic characteristic of her Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Instead of acknowledging or even attempting to confront the fact that her book is full of demonstrably false claims, she tries to attack the AP for reporting it. Notice she isn’t actually denying anything the AP reported, though. > > This is her MO for everything – always attack the messenger. She can’t claim credit for it, though; it’s Karl Rove’s invention. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/34 "2009-11-18T18:42:25Z")
She’s even referred to the AP as “opposition” for doing this. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/35 "2009-11-18T19:04:02Z")
This idea that the press has a responsibility to “take a side” when reporting was one of the central theses of Stephen Colbert’s still monumental Correspondent’s Dinner speech. According to the character Colbert the job of the press is to write down what Politican X says and then go home and spend time with their family and work on that novel about the intrepid reporter who unmasks a vast conspiracy…you know, FICTION! The press’ job is not to be stenographers (unless they work for the North Korean news agency), though they too often allow themselves to fall into that role. Palin’s book is “news” and deserves to be treated as such. It’s not about “taking a side”, its about evaluating statements against generally accepted standards of truth. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/36 "2009-11-18T19:23:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes. [One reporter got a byline, 10 others are credited as contributors.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091113/ap_on_el_pr/us_palin_book_fact_check) > > I don’t think a researcher would get credited as a “writer.” And to repeat my earlier statement, I don’t think a fact checker would be assigned to do this job because it is reporting. A fact checker, for publications that have them, checks background statements in a reporter’s work. [Here is the abstract of a New Yorker article by John McPhee about fact checkers.](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/02/09/090209fa_fact_mcphee) Thanks for pointing out the crediting, **Marley**. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/37 "2009-11-18T20:10:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thanks for pointing out the crediting, **Marley**. Glad I could resolve that part of the question. One other point: I believe fact checkers are usually jacks of all trades who are assigned to one piece at a time. For a story like this, it would make more sense to use a group of political reporters or researchers who are already familiar with Palin’s history and have some idea what to look for. There’s not much sense in complaining about the number 11 either. Stories need to be timely, and it’s a 400-odd page book. Even if they confined their attention to her political life and not her personal life, and she only made an assertion of her views or a statement of fact every few pages, that’s dozens and dozens of items. ---
**Author:** ![BKReporter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@BKReporter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BKReporter)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/38 "2009-11-18T20:14:40Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > [li]Literary or political criticism is better handled by critics or commentators, not by news reporters. There already is a perception of bias in reporting, this would not help the issue.[/LIST][/li] They’re not delivering a critique of the book’s prose, which is what the term “literary criticism” would imply. Likewise they’re not critiquing her political opinions. They’re simply examing the accuracy of the book and reporting on their findings. And I would hope the AP assigned “straight news reporters” to this, as opposed to political commentators who might have an ax to grind. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/39 "2009-11-18T20:18:36Z")
Frankly, I’d love them to actually do this ALL THE TIME, for EVERYTHING. It would be nice to have the “news” actually be accurate and fact-based instead of consisting mostly of speculation, opinion and “human-interest” fluff. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029/40 "2009-11-18T20:22:42Z")
The most important job of the news media is to keep politicians honest, whether they’re calling bullshit on Obama’s “jobs saved due to the stimulus” figures or calling bullshit on a potential presidential candidate’s recently published book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-for-news-organizations-to-fact-check-books/518029.md?page=3)