# Is it appropriate or inappropriate to criticize an actress's looks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475 "2012-04-11T16:30:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/21 "2012-04-12T02:11:26Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > I think if an actress _ONLY_ has looks to bank on ala Meagan Fox, there’s not much else to discuss. I mean, ‘Academy Award Winner, Meagan Fox’ is just not something I expect I’ll ever hear. I’m not ruling anything out. Who would have predicted Halle Berry, Angeline Jolie, or Charlize Theron were future Oscar winners when they were twenty-five years old? (Well, okay, technically Jolie was twenty-five when she won her Oscar. But hopefully you get my point.) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/22 "2012-04-12T02:12:38Z")
As just idle chit chat, ok. Some people get downright hurtful about it. But for the people who “must” do it for professional reasons read the biography of Don Simpson. (Simpson/Bruckheimer produced Flashdance, Top Gun, and a ton of other hits) Simpson told Debra Wringer that she shouldn’t have the role in An Officer and an Gentleman “because you are not fuckable”. She got the part anyway but to prove he isn’t an idiot he is the one who insisted that “Love lifts Us Up Where We Belong” be in the movie. Leading actresses need to look fuckable. Is she fuckable? Jennifer Beals got the role after he and Michael Eisner (then head of Paramount) arranged screenings of the three women up for the role to all the “average guys” (painters, set builders, other laborers) and then asked them which girl they most wanted to fuck. (Demi Moore and some other woman were passed over for Jennifer) in the Biz, it gets a little brutal about your looks. They don’t need more of it from the general population. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/23 "2012-04-12T02:19:25Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > If their looks are inappropriate for _a given role_, that’s worthy of note. A pretty good example is the movie vs. the stage play version of _Frankie and Johnny_ ( originally _Frankie and Johnny in the Claire de Lune_ ). It was originally cast with the relatively unglamorous Kathy Bates as the female lead in the play. In the movie it became Michelle Pfeiffer, which gave rise to some criticism ( fair, IMO ) that no matter how much you dowdied her up and played up her emotional issues, Pfeiffer was still a stunner. Having Al Pacino fall for her was rather less impactful than having him fall so hard for Bates. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/24 "2012-04-12T02:59:27Z")
It’s free speech, so appropriateness has nothing to do with it. She’s a public figure: people are going to comment on her every move. So what? Does she really think that making some self-serving public statement about it is going to make it stop? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/25 "2012-04-12T03:04:10Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I would have considered her looks much like, say, the ability of a software developer to program in a specific language. If I’m trying to get job that involves programming in C++, but I haven’t used the language professionally in 15 years, is criticizing me for my lack of recent experience any more or less appropriate than criticizing an actress’s appearance? Well, who’s doing the criticizing? If Ashley Judd were auditioning for the role of a hot young sorority girl then the casting director and other people involved in producing the film would be perfectly justified in turning her down because she doesn’t have the right look for such a role anymore. But Judd already has the lead role in the TV series _Missing_, so clearly someone thought she was right for the part. If she’s been miscast then it’s not really _her_ fault, and from what little I know of the show I don’t see how the way she looks makes her unsuited to the role. Wikipedia tells me she’s playing a retired CIA agent/mother of a college student, a part which does not strike me as requiring youth and beauty or precluding a puffy face. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/26 "2012-04-12T03:59:25Z")
I think people are unnecessarily mean about Sarah Jessica Parker’s looks. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/27 "2012-04-12T04:16:39Z")
I said “sometimes.” If the actress is actually ill or suffering from some illness or condition that makes her unattractive, I think it’s uncouth to comment upon it. Otherwise, physical attractiveness is second only to acting skill (and sometimes not even that) as the coin of the realm in Hollywood. Perfectly proper to remark upon it. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/28 "2012-04-12T04:25:01Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > I think people are unnecessarily mean about Sarah Jessica Parker’s looks. I think it’s a reaction to the fact that she hasn’t had a nose job. She’s gorgeous from some angles, horse-faced from others, because of her nose. So we look at her and maybe are a little jealous because she has this one slightly unattractive feature – that she could easily fix – but she doesn’t care. She’s happy with herself. We wonder why we can’t be happy with our own selves. And then we look at that actress from Dirty Dancing who fixed her nose and never worked again. (Was it her or somebody else?) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/29 "2012-04-12T05:14:52Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > I think it’s a reaction to the fact that she hasn’t had a nose job. She’s gorgeous from some angles, horse-faced from others, because of her nose. So we look at her and maybe are a little jealous because she has this one slightly unattractive feature – that she could easily fix – but she doesn’t care. She’s happy with herself. We wonder why we can’t be happy with our own selves. > > And then we look at that actress from Dirty Dancing who fixed her nose and never worked again. (Was it her or somebody else?) She has had a nose job. [http://hollywoodnose.com/SarahJessicaParkerNoseJob](http://hollywoodnose.com/SarahJessicaParkerNoseJob) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/30 "2012-04-12T06:08:57Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > She has had a nose job. [http://hollywoodnose.com/SarahJessicaParkerNoseJob](http://hollywoodnose.com/SarahJessicaParkerNoseJob) Don’t believe sites like that. They see plastic surgery where everyone else sees a shadow, or natural ageing, or caught mid-sneeze, or a particular camera angle. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/31 "2012-04-12T09:38:07Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > On the next hand, I think, well, this is why actress is such a short-lived career, unless you age beautifully. … or were never, ever, “the Girl”, just [an](https://www.google.es/search?q=rossy+de+palma) [Almodóvar](https://www.google.es/search?q=loles+leon) [girl](http://www.imdb.es/name/nm0560962/). ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/32 "2012-04-12T10:13:16Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > To use one real life example… I think Sofia Coppola is a perfectly attractive woman. But she was NOT attractive enough to play her role in _ **The Godfather III.** _ I just didn’t buy Andy Garcia risking his shot at being a big shot in the Mob for her. A better looking actress was required. Much of the criticism she received was malicious and excessive… but the criticism wasn’t entirely wrong. I haven’t seen that movie. Was the beautiy of the woman the reason given (in the movie) for him “risking his shot at being a big shot”, or is that your interpretation of why he would risk it for her? ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/33 "2012-04-12T10:34:17Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Actress? We are talking a movie star here! Does she seriously believe she would have stood a snowball’s chance in hell of succeeding in that hugely rewarded (not just in monetary terms) career if she had not been lucky enough to be born with extraordinary good looks? It was all hard work and talent I suppose, looks don’t matter! Tell that to the thousands of talented, hard-working actresses who never got past a freaking audition. Tell it to all the lonely women in the world who not only do not get paid millions of dollars for a few weeks light work, but can’t find themselves a boyfriend! > > This is the voice of enormous privilege, baying for more. Lady, you should be hugely and eternally grateful that, unlike the vast, vast majority of the human race, you once briefly in your life received hugely excessive amounts of cash and public adulation, largely because you looked exceptionally pretty. It does not come with an entitlement that it should last for ever, or that people should pretend not to notice that you have lost what got you where you are. There are plenty of other talented and hardworking women, who look as good as or better than you once did, ready, willing and able to take your place. You are aware that there are unattractive actors and actresses out there? There’s also this thing called talent. Now, there being a lack of decent roles for women of a certain age. That’s a valid discussion. But this “you have to be good looking to make it”? Absolute bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/34 "2012-04-12T10:44:12Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I said “sometimes.” If the actress is actually ill or suffering from some illness or condition that makes her unattractive, I think it’s uncouth to comment upon it. Otherwise, physical attractiveness is second only to acting skill (and sometimes not even that) as the coin of the realm in Hollywood. Perfectly proper to remark upon it. I was going to say always until I read this. I guess it would be wrong to criticize someone in that predicament, even when not talking directly to them. Yip, that’s why I was going to say always. I took it as given that you don’t tell someone they don’t look good to their face, except in certain rare instances. I assumed criticism just meant what these people did here, which is just talking in public about their perceptions of a public figure. Saying it to their face wouldn’t be a criticism but an insult. And, anyways, I’m sure she didn’t feel that way when she constantly used her looks to get where she was. It will take more than just defending herself against criticism to get me to believe she actually believes what she is saying. I mean, she got her plastic surgery because she was trying to adhere to the very standards of beauty she is decrying. If she has kids, let’s see what she teaches them. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/35 "2012-04-12T10:46:37Z")
I answered “something else”. Basically, I think the issue isn’t people being critical - I don’t know how you’d stop that - it’s the sheer quantity of reporting which goes on about famous people. To a large extent, the interest in minutiae like this is manufactured for the simple sake of having something to discuss. I think that one could create legislation which would, to at least some extent, help to protect the famous from the constant bombardment and eavesdropping by the media. A rule that even famous people can’t have their photo published unless they were at a public venue, minus consent, would go a long ways towards diminishing the press’ interest. There isn’t a great public need served by spying on the private lives of the famous, and I’m sure that the media will quickly find some other way of filling pages that entertains the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/36 "2012-04-12T11:16:29Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > For Ms. Judd - eh, I have to admit I wondered what the heck was going on with her face, and I assumed it was a health thing. It sure as heck doesn’t look like plastic surgery gone wrong or something. I just assumed it was “being 43”. And not in a particularly bad way - she’s a fine-looking 43-year-old (says the man one year older than her). But no one looks the same at 43 as they did at 23, and people who complain about actors ageing are exactly the reason so many of them go out and get terrible plastic surgery. I don’t think it’s inappropriate to comment on an actor or actress’ looks, particularly in the context of a role. But there’s no need to be a dick about it. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/37 "2012-04-12T11:22:45Z")
After listening to Judd talk yesterday, I started thinking about this. I’m definitely in agreement that the rules of etiquette and politeness shouldn’t fall by the wayside just because someone is in the public eye. I wouldn’t ask my coworker about her plastic surgery or ask her to explain her weight gain or any such thing, because it would be rude. I would expect anyone in this position to feel uncomfortable. Celebrities have feelings too. However, it seems kind of strange to be pouty about people talking badly about your looks but not saying anything all those years when they talk about how beautiful you are. Ashley Judd would not be where she is if she weren’t good-looking. She’s banked on this advantage for years. And this isn’t to say that she doesn’t have it going on in other areas (she seems pretty intelligent too), but she can’t have her cake and eat it too. You can’t say, “Stop being superficial!” when the times are going rough, and then be smiley-happy when everyone fawns over you during the good times. That’s just as superficial. So her looks can be criticized and be used against her in hiring decisions, IMHO. Because as a public figure, looks are a factor in her stardom. But people shouldn’t be mean about it. Idle chitchat is one thing, but grilling her about it in an interview is just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/38 "2012-04-12T11:53:27Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I think that one could create legislation which would, to at least some extent, help to protect the famous from the constant bombardment and eavesdropping by the media. A rule that even famous people can’t have their photo published unless they were at a public venue, minus consent, would go a long ways towards diminishing the press’ interest. There isn’t a great public need served by spying on the private lives of the famous, and I’m sure that the media will quickly find some other way of filling pages that entertains the general public. I think this is one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard. Personally, I vote for freedom of the press. It’s not quite the Patriot Act, but geez, our freedoms are already eroding at an alarming rate; curtailing the press is the last thing we need. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/39 "2012-04-12T12:05:49Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > A pretty good example is the movie vs. the stage play version of _Frankie and Johnny_ ( originally _Frankie and Johnny in the Claire de Lune_ ). It was originally cast with the relatively unglamorous Kathy Bates as the female lead in the play. In the movie it became Michelle Pfeiffer, which gave rise to some criticism ( fair, IMO ) that no matter how much you dowdied her up and played up her emotional issues, Pfeiffer was still a stunner. Having Al Pacino fall for her was rather less impactful than having him fall so hard for Bates. Another prime example of this same idea. The movie _Only You_ starred Andrew McCarthy as a guy who met two women and had to decide between them. One (Kelly Preston) was the beautiful one who had a difficult personality. The other one was the less attractive one who was a wonderful person. The point obviously was whether McCarthy’s character would be able to look past the surface and see the real woman underneath. A cliche, but made even more ridiculous by the actress they cast to play the “unattractive” woman: Helen Hunt. Seriously? We’re supposed to accept that this character’s major flaw is that she’s only as good looking as [Helen Hunt](http://content6.flixster.com/photo/68/94/60/6894608_gal.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475/40 "2012-04-12T12:27:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Another prime example of this same idea. The movie _Only You_ starred Andrew McCarthy as a guy who met two women and had to decide between them. One (Kelly Preston) was the beautiful one who had a difficult personality. The other one was the less attractive one who was a wonderful person. The point obviously was whether McCarthy’s character would be able to look past the surface and see the real woman underneath. A cliche, but made even more ridiculous by the actress they cast to play the “unattractive” woman: Helen Hunt. > > Seriously? We’re supposed to accept that this character’s major flaw is that she’s only as good looking as [Helen Hunt](http://content6.flixster.com/photo/68/94/60/6894608_gal.jpg)? See also: The Truth About Cats and Dogs, with Janeane Garofalo as the uggo. Or the television show “Popular” where the unpopular sister’s main flaw as far as i could tell was not being blonde. Or indeed any film where the nerd girl removes her glasses and lets her hair down, revealing her to be a stunner. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-appropriate-or-inappropriate-to-criticize-an-actresss-looks/618475.md?page=3)