# Is It Becoming Socially Acceptable To Say You Are Not Religious? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 23, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441 "2009-03-23T08:37:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/61 "2009-03-24T17:37:46Z")
The Loch Ness Monster is MY God!!! [sub]Well, he was until he started working as a door greeter for Mr. Burns’s casino. Gambling is sinful![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/62 "2009-03-24T17:49:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Gutgore\_Blooddrink](#): > > What I do get a lot of when meeting new people (especially in a social drinking environment) is them asking what my sign is. I suppose astrology is part of religion in some ways, whether you believe it to be quackery or not. I guess it only really gets to me when people find out what sign I am and then do the obligatory “That makes total sense!” shtick. You could do what [Raymond Smullyan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Smullyan) supposedly used to do. Tell them, “I don’t believe in astrology. I’m a Gemini, and Geminis never believe in astrology”. Their reaction might at least be fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/63 "2009-03-24T18:04:21Z")
> [@PeskiPiksi](#): > > Yep, Oklahoman here and it’s definitely wise to pick and choose when to be open about your lack of belief. > > Like a month or two ago when I was at Target and chit-chatting with the cashier about my daughter, and I made the comment about how lucky I was to have such a laid-back, cheerful baby. The lady actually had the nerve to correct me…“No, dear…you’re _blessed_ to have her. Never forget who gave her to you.” > > It was the end of the transaction and I was a little taken off-guard, so I just kind of shrugged it off and left. Of course, I thought of all kinds of witty replies later, like “Yep, my husband banged me a good one that night!” or something. > > But the point is, she felt comfortable assuming I was a Christian, and I felt uncomfortable correcting her. That’s just the atmosphere here. I live in Tennessee and the same sort of thing happens to me, though I’m about as out of the closet as one can be. ---
**Author:** ![caveman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caveman/32/7242_2.png) [@caveman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caveman)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/64 "2009-03-24T18:32:18Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > You could do what [Raymond Smullyan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Smullyan) supposedly used to do. Tell them, “I don’t believe in astrology. I’m a Gemini, and Geminis never believe in astrology”. Their reaction might at least be fun to watch. I always give 'em a wrong sign at first, let them explain how it fits me, then “remember” that I’m a Pisces, and watch them scramble to rationalize. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/65 "2009-03-24T18:42:21Z")
Hmm. Atheist = “Does not believe in god”. (“Strong atheist” = Believes there is no god"; "really strong atheist = “Believes there can be no god”.) Agnostic = “Does not know whether there is a god”. (Strong agnostic = 'Believes it is impossible to know whether there is a god".) We need another word for “Does not _care_ whether there is a god”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/66 "2009-03-24T19:00:59Z")
[Apatheism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism). [Irreligion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion). ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/67 "2009-03-24T19:23:21Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > I’m in the U.S. and I never felt it was socially not acceptable to say I’m not religious. Of course, I don’t live in the Bible belt… I live in the Netherlands, and I suspect this question was not aimed at me. There probably are some people over here who would be mildly shocked that I’m an atheist, but I’ve never met any and over here atheism+agnosticism is pretty much the default (14%+16% population, vs 24% who believe in the traditional God(s), and 26% who believe in “Something more”). ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/68 "2009-03-24T19:42:31Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > I live in the Netherlands, and I suspect this question was not aimed at me. There probably are some people over here who would be mildly shocked that I’m an atheist, but I’ve never met any and over here atheism+agnosticism is pretty much the default (14%+16% population, vs 24% who believe in the traditional God(s), and 26% who believe in “Something more”). Maybe it’s that new math, but if 50% of the population believes in a god or a higher power of some kind and 16% are atheists and 34% are some nebulous “other”, how is athiest the default? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/69 "2009-03-24T19:44:02Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Maybe it’s that new math, but if 50% of the population believes in a god or a higher power of some kind and 16% are atheists and 34% are some nebulous “other”, how is athiest the default? I’m sorry? Where did you get your numbers from? Oh I see. Note that “something other” includes all kinds of stuff like paganism, fairies, spirits etc. Which would make 30% atheist and agnostics more prominent than any other specific group. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/70 "2009-03-24T19:45:00Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Agnostics don’t believe in a god, so where did you get the 50% from? 24% believe in a god while 26% believe in “something more” i.e. a higher power. That’s 50%. I assumed agnostics were counted in the 34% other section. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/71 "2009-03-24T20:01:03Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > 24% believe in a god while 26% believe in “something more” i.e. a higher power. That’s 50%. I assumed agnostics were counted in the 34% other section. Sorry I edited my previous post just before I saw your reply. I got my figures from [this article in Dutch](http://www.enschede.tctubantia.nl/112296/geloof_in_god_in_nederland_tanende) reporting a study by the dutch roman catholic church - figures from 2006 14 percent atheist 26 percent agnostic 26 percent who believe “there is something more between heaven and earth” 24 percent believes in a personal god that cares about people individually this leaves 10% unaccounted for. also: 40 percent believes in life after death 21 percent believes in heaven ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/72 "2009-03-24T20:04:54Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > I got my figures from [this article in Dutch](http://www.enschede.tctubantia.nl/112296/geloof_in_god_in_nederland_tanende) reporting a study by the dutch roman catholic church - figures from 2006 > > 14 percent atheist > 26 percent agnostic > 26 percent who believe “there is something more between heaven and earth” > 24 percent believes in a personal god > > this leaves 10% unaccounted for. Since I don’t speak Dutch, I’ll have to take your word for it, but those numbers still don’t make atheist the default. People that believe “there is something more between heaven and earth” aren’t agnostics. They may not believe in “God” with a capital G, but they believe in a high power. That, combined with those who do believe in a god, put atheists in a distinct minority. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/73 "2009-03-24T20:10:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Maybe it’s that new math, but if 50% of the population believes in a god or a higher power of some kind and 16% are atheists and 34% are some nebulous “other”, how is athiest the default? [Because 70 percent of the Dutch _never_ attends church.](http://www.cbs.nl/nl-NL/menu/themas/vrije-tijd-cultuur/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2003/2003-1361-wm.htm) Less then 12 % of the population attend church on a weekly basis. It is nog so much that atheism is the default here in the netherlands; it is more that the default setting is that one’s religious beliefs are, and should be, kept to oneself. Perhaps there’s an historical basis for this, in centuries of religious quarrels dividing the Netherlands. People assume that if someone stands up and says: “I’m (religion X)”, that persons next words will mean trouble. That is the reason for the phenomenon that **Marienee** described, of Duch people becoming uncomfortable when a person states their beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/74 "2009-03-24T20:19:11Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > [Because 70 percent of the Dutch _never_ attends church.](http://www.cbs.nl/nl-NL/menu/themas/vrije-tijd-cultuur/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2003/2003-1361-wm.htm) Less then 12 % of the population attend church on a weekly basis. It is nog so much that atheism is the default here in the netherlands; it is more that the default setting is that one’s religious beliefs are, and should be, kept to oneself. Perhaps there’s an historical basis for this, in centuries of religious quarrels dividing the Netherlands. People assume that if someone stands up and says: “I’m (religion X)”, that persons next words will mean trouble. That is the reason for the phenomenon that **Marienee** described, of Duch people becoming uncomfortable when a person states their beliefs. That’s all well and good, but **Superfluous Parentheses** was not talking about church attendance, he was talking about atheism being considered the “default” for the Dutch. His numbers did not back that up. As for church attendance, for everyone’s harping on the religious overload they apparently feel in America, only 26% attend church every week. And a good portion of the attendees are concentrated among certain geographics areas, ethnicities and the elderly. [http://atheism.about.com/b/2003/10/16/american-church-attendance-low.htm](http://atheism.about.com/b/2003/10/16/american-church-attendance-low.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/75 "2009-03-24T20:20:38Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Since I don’t speak Dutch, I’ll have to take your word for it, but those numbers still don’t make atheist the default. People that believe “there is something more between heaven and earth” aren’t agnostics. They may not believe in “God” with a capital G, but they believe in a high power. That, combined with those who do believe in a god, put atheists in a distinct minority. I think you can argue either way (though I could have stated it better). I should have said: the **assumption** is “non-religious”: Definitely non-religious = agnostics + atheists = 14 + 26 = 40% (and I know that’s arguable, but people over here who identify as agnostic certainly aren’t religious in any traditional sense). “traditional religious” = 24% (and as Maastricht points out - quite a few of them don’t go to church much or at all) And 24% are an ill-defined mixture of all kinds of stuff like deists, theistic & non-theistic beliefs (“magic” / reincarnation / spirits) and certainly not all of those are religious. ---
**Author:** ![eldowan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@eldowan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eldowan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/76 "2009-03-24T23:50:34Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > More specifically, is it now more socially acceptable to say you have no religious affiliation whatsoever? I can’t remember a time when I considered myself to be part of any religion, so as far back as I can remember I’ve affiliated with the ‘non religious’ label / term. I don’t care if someone is scandalized by my lack of faith in their (or other competing) religions, so why would I lie to make them feel better? ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/77 "2009-03-25T02:14:08Z")
I think it’s very location-dependent, even within the Bible Belt. If I still lived in Lexington or Greensboro, I’d feel a lot more comfortable being out about atheism/agnosticism. But out here in the sticks, I’m more comfortable in the closet. Like others have said, there’s a huge difference between saying you’re “not religious” and saying you’re an atheist. If pressed, I offer up the former. I’m also not shy about my criticism of organized religion and the political positions associated with it; I openly support abortion rights, gay rights, real science education, and the like. But it’s a big leap from there to openly denying the existence of God. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/78 "2009-03-25T16:23:13Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I’ve gotten some very negative comments when people found out I just plan old didn’t believe there was a God. This apparently equates to saying “I’ve given up keeping any kind of moral code.” From the guy yelling at me “What keeps you from just killing or robbing people?” to the sublime “You white boys don’t even believe in God. I’m going to save you before I retire.” For the former, you could say something like “What keeps you Christians from killing or robbing people? Don’t you have a ‘get out of hell free’ card? All you have to do is, sometime before you die, say ‘Oh man, I’m really really sorry I did all that bad stuff and I really really believe in you, Jesus’, and you’re home free.” Then when they attempt to correct you, say, “Oh, I guess I’m as ignorant about Christians as you are about nonbelievers.” ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/79 "2009-03-25T16:53:15Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’m not sure I’m reading you correctly, but that’s interesting: I’d associate religious Christian clergy in Britain with being almost wholly on the political left. The Church of England has always been called ‘The Conservative Party at Prayer’ for good reason. Besides - if Christians really had any concern for their religion rather than using it as a cloak for their prejudices they’d all be left of centre. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441/80 "2009-03-25T17:15:59Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The Church of England has always been called ‘The Conservative Party at Prayer’ for good reason. > > Besides - if Christians really had any concern for their religion rather than using it as a cloak for their prejudices they’d all be left of centre. I have just been reading a history of coal-mining in the East Midlands and it’s interesting to note that the early mining unions were given support and encouragement by the Non-Conformist churches (such as the Baptists) in the mining villages. At the same time the Church of England ministers in these same communities usually sided with the mine owners. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-becoming-socially-acceptable-to-say-you-are-not-religious/490441.md?page=5)