# Is It Bigger Than A Bread Box? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266 "2001-01-10T02:33:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/1 "2001-01-10T02:33:30Z")
Ok, go read the article at this link and tell me you aren’t interested. [This is IT](http://www.inside.com/jcs/Story?article_id=20218&pod_id=8) > [@](#): > > All they do know: **IT** , also code-named Ginger, is an invention developed by 49-year-old scientist Dean Kamen, and the subject of a planned book by journalist Steve Kemper. According to Kemper’s proposal,\*\* IT\*\* will change the world, and is so extraordinary that it has drawn the attention of technology visionaries Jeff Bezos and Steve Jobs and the investment dollars of pre-eminent Silicon Valley venture capitalist John Doerr, among others. and… > [@](#): > > Doerr also says, a touch ominously, that he had been sure that he wouldn’t see the development of anything in his lifetime as important as the World Wide Web – until he saw **IT**. According to the proposal, another investor, Credit Suisse First Boston, expects Kamen’s invention to make more money in its first year than any start-up in history, predicting Kamen will be worth more in five years than Bill Gates. Jobs told Kamen the invention would be as significant as the PC, the proposal says. Ok, now part of me says, “Show me the money…” and part of me says, “Hell, there are some impressive names on that list.” More impact than the Web? More money than Gates? Want another teaser? > [@](#): > > In a private meeting with Bezos, Jobs and Doerr, Kamen assembled two Gingers – or **ITs** – in 10 minutes, using a screwdriver and hex wrenches from components that fit into a couple of large duffel bags and some cardboard boxes. > > …snip… > > Bezos is quoted as saying that **IT** ‘‘is a product so revolutionary, you’ll have no problem selling it. The question is, are people going to be allowed to use it?’’ I admit this is well beyond me. I’m just a simple contractor. I am not an inventor, I am not a sophisticated investor, but I am a curious SOB. The article does a lot of name dropping, and the names are some fairly cutting edge, succesful names. So is this article all hype with nothing real to offer? Or is it heralding the coming of something pretty damn cool? And if it is…what the heck is it? ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/2 "2001-01-10T02:47:56Z")
**IT** is a scheme for generating intense publicity about something that will, in the short term, generate a lot of capital for a select crowd (like the author of the book), and in a couple years may recoup its costs. The other invention the guy is credited with is a wheelchair that climbs stairs. Yeah, I’d put my money on him. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/3 "2001-01-10T03:00:44Z")
A little background about that guy who built “a wheelchair that climbs stairs.” He seems to be a little more than you dismiss him as. At the very least, he hangs around with an A-list of power buddies. [Dean Kamen](http://www.wirednews.com/wired/archive/8.09/kamen_pr.html) …and the link to a discussion board devoted to this article: [http://www.inside.com/jcs/BoardsGroupDisplay?group\_id=6086&type=books&podId=8&category\_type\_id=1000](http://www.inside.com/jcs/BoardsGroupDisplay?group_id=6086&type=books&podId=8&category_type_id=1000) Their thinking seems to center around pure BS and some kind of energy machine. For my part, if it isn’t a medical device, I would place my money on the energy angle. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/4 "2001-01-10T03:31:21Z")
So, why the publicity if they want it secret?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/5 "2001-01-10T03:34:09Z")
It’s some form of transport, because: a) they keep talking about redesigning and retrofitting cities and campuses for it, and b) that previous invention, the walking-wheelchair thingie, was also a form of transport, so this is where the guy has his experience. My money is on some form of electric city vehicle. There are companies out there making batteries, rechargeables, that can come in any shape and can therefore be, presumably, packed more tightly and have more power than rechargeables that are currently available. Perhaps he’s taking advantage of this. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/6 "2001-01-10T16:40:52Z")
🙂 > [@](#): > > So, why the publicity if they want it secret? This was covered in link #1. > [@](#): > > Why the secrecy? Kamen fears, as he states in a letter to Kemper that is included in the proposal, that ‘‘huge corporations’’ might catch wind of the invention and ‘‘use their massive resources to erect obstacles against us or, worse, simply appropriate the technology by assigning hundreds of engineers to catch up to us, and thousands of employees to produce it in their plants.’’ …and… > [@](#): > > b) that previous invention, the walking-wheelchair thingie, was also a form of transport, so this is where the guy has his experience. This was covered in link #2 (forgeting the size problem as it was described in the OP) From link > [@](#): > > So Kamen invented the first portable infusion pump capable of delivering drugs (such as insulin) to patients who had previously required round-the-clock monitoring, freeing them from a life inside the hospital. > > …snip… > > In the mid-1990s, he devised a phone book-sized dialysis machine - at a time when similar devices were as big as dishwashers > > …snip… > > He believes technology and ingenuity can solve all kinds of social ills - like pollution, limited access to electricity, and contaminated water in many third-world countries, Read the links. At the very least the guy seems pretty damn interesting. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/7 "2001-01-10T20:19:39Z")
Answer: A one-person jetpack (with safety features) that runs on tap water. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/8 "2001-01-10T22:05:43Z")
Freedom2 wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > b) that previous invention, the walking-wheelchair thingie, was also a form of transport, so this is where the guy has his experience. > > This was covered in link #2 (forgeting the size problem as it was described in the OP) > > From link > > > [@](#): > > > > So Kamen invented the first portable infusion pump capable of delivering drugs (such as insulin) to patients who had previously required round-the-clock monitoring, freeing them from a life inside the hospital. > > > > In the mid-1990s, he devised a phone book-sized dialysis machine - at a time when similar devices were as big as dishwashers > > > > …snip… > > Read the links. However, the article also says: “IT is not a medical invention.” … so dialysis and automatic drug-injecting pumps don’t sound like areas this latest invention is going to touch on, either. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2001, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/9 "2001-01-10T22:13:52Z")
Just a fuel cell. People “won’t be allowed to use it” if your local Chicken Littles have seen the Hindenburg film one too many times. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/10 "2001-01-11T02:41:15Z")
**jmullaney** : what’s the Hindenburg disaster got to do with fuel cells? **Freedom2** : I don’t see where a small, single person vehicle wouldn’t be able to fit, disassembled, in some large duffel bags and cardboard boxes. But I’ll concede it would be difficult. The Stirling engine sounds like a neato idea. If something like that is what he has in mind for doing something like powering or heating your house, bring it on! Especially given the increasing price of natural gas. ---
**Author:** ![RoboDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bbe5ce/32.png) [@RoboDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoboDude)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/11 "2001-01-11T03:26:36Z")
Fuel cells run on hydrogen, which is the same gas that the Hindenburg was filled with. However, I read somewhere that someone analyzed a fragment of the Hindenburg’s skin and determined that it was even more flammable than the hydrogen. ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/12 "2001-01-11T03:39:04Z")
People might be interested in posting in the very long GQ thread speculating on this very subject (although it looks like IMHO would be better then GD or GQ) 🙂 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54669](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=54669) ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/13 "2001-01-11T03:45:29Z")
> [@](#): > > However, the article also says: > > “IT is not a medical invention.” > > … so dialysis and automatic drug-injecting pumps don’t sound like areas this latest invention is going to touch on, either. I agree. My point must have been so subtle that it slipped by you. I was merely pointing out that this guy’s experience was not merely inventing that wheelchair. If you read the link you will see that he has invented a ton of things. I didn’t want to get in trouble by posting too much of the original article, so I had to draw the line somewhere. > [@](#): > > what’s the Hindenburg disaster got to do with fuel cells? I would suppose that it wouldn’t matter what fuel cells where made of, some people would predict doom. The scenario that makes me laugh the most is someone predicting a future where these cells are common and then one blows up. Of course since the fuel cells are so common that will ignite a chain reaction that will level the entire continent.🙂 > [@](#): > > : I don’t see where a small, single person vehicle wouldn’t be able to fit, disassembled, in some large duffel bags and cardboard boxes. But I’ll concede it would be difficult. Well, I’m thinking of some sort of strap on magnetic backpack that lets you fly around:) How cool would that be? For only $1500??? And you thought the PS2 was hard to find?🙂 After more thought, to meet the earth shattering consequences the article set up, I think it has to be either an individual flying device or some type of energy source. Some other ideas I have seen out there: Holographic projector for your home. Sex aide:) Some sort of super toilet that transforms waste into pure water.(by by sewers) A ballot democrats can understand. (Ok I’m sorry…I’m sorry…:)) ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/14 "2001-01-11T04:11:55Z")
I was going to say before that if it were some newfangled sex toy he’d be guaranteed to mint money in his first year. Though I hear the competition in that field can be a bit, uh, stiff. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![muttrox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a8b319/32.png) [@muttrox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muttrox)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/15 "2001-01-11T19:08:40Z")
I like the solo flying idea. It would fit all the criteria nicely. Notice that IT could stand for “Individual Transport”, a pretty apt acronym. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/16 "2001-01-11T19:41:43Z")
I saw some guy on another forum claiming it was a scooter version of the stair climbing wheelchair. He posted pics of the wheelchair (pretty cool BTW) and then a link to the patent of the scooter. It has 3 wheels and mainly balances on two. I’m guessing the other two are for curbs and stuff. When it is on, you can’t tip it over. I guess it uses some sort of gyroscope to maintain it’s balance. When you turn it off it just falls over. I can’t see this scooter changing the way the world works though. No matter how clean and efficient it is, you can’t date on it and it would suck when it snowed.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/17 "2001-01-11T20:07:35Z")
Freedom2 wrote: > [@](#): > > Well, I’m thinking of some sort of strap on magnetic backpack that lets you fly around:) “magnetic” … Wait a minute … _ **THAT’S IT!!** _ He’s planning to install permanent magnets in all existing paved roads, and then everybody will be able to drive magnetic-levitation cars around! ---
**Author:** ![Pyrrhonist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pyrrhonist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pyrrhonist)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/18 "2001-01-11T20:22:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > \*\* > > I saw some guy on another forum claiming it was a scooter version of the stair climbing wheelchair. > > \*\* I’ve read about the personal scooter theory and agree it could be a Personal Mobility Machine; if it is a clean and efficient little machine, I think the inventor and investors are counting on it replacing _walking._ Perhaps inside as well as outside. I suppose it would be a lot like a bicycle you don’t have to peddle. It would be a great boon to the elderly who have a little trouble with mobility, kids going to school, or any one going on a short jaunt. There is a classic science fiction short story by David H. Keller called “The Revolt of the Pedestrians” about a future society were nobody walks anymore, they all ride on Personal Mobility Machines except for a small group of Pedestrians. ---
**Author:** ![JDM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/90db22/32.png) [@JDM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JDM)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/19 "2001-01-11T20:48:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freedom2 \* > **also code-named Ginger** I’m not impressed- I’m going to wait for the Mary-Ann. JDM ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2001, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266/20 "2001-01-11T20:54:22Z")
> [@](#): > > , I think the inventor and investors are counting on it replacing walking. …and we laugh when they call us fat and lazy Americans…🙂 To replace walking they would have to replicate something like the fat Duke (baron?) wore in Dune. I’m not counting on a cool flying/floating machine, but that it what I really want it to be. I guess in an altruistic sense, I should hope it is a cheap, portable and efficient fuel source. That would do the most good for the world. (but flying would be pretty cool) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-bigger-than-a-bread-box/49266.md?page=2)