# Is it "By the by" or "By the bye"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 17, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948 "2014-06-17T00:10:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/1 "2014-06-17T00:10:44Z")
I was just reading “The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde,” and in Chapter 5 Stevenson has a character say, “By the bye…” The context is a character bringing up a question, seemingly off-hand, as he is saying goodbye to the butler of a gentleman he was visiting. I’d always assumed (without much thought) that the expression was “by the by.” But in this context it was sort of used as “Say, Jeeves, as I’m heading for the door, one last question…” Which makes “bye” seem like a natural final word for the expression. Any thoughts? Better yet, any definite answers and citations? Thanks! (By the bye, I know I could just use “by the way” - or God help us, \*BTW \*- and avoid this whole issue. But I’d rather fight my own ignorance.) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/2 "2014-06-17T00:55:39Z")
Wow… Dunno. I always thought it was “by the by,” but RLS using the other version is a pretty good argument for it. Google turns up lots of references for both! No joy there! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/3 "2014-06-17T01:18:33Z")
It’s both. They’re used pretty much interchangeably as early as I can see. 1615 W. Hull Mirrour of Majestie 98 Not intentionally, but accidentally (as we say) vpon the bye. 1627 G. Hakewill Apologie Pref. sig. C5v, It led them to some other way, thwarting, and vpon the by, not directly. 1642 T. Fuller Holy State v. v. 377 They had something…in the favour of Friers, though brought in as by the by. a1653 Z. Boyd Zion’s Flowers (1855) 85 Who ever he be that in adultery, Begets a child, he stealeth by a by. a1661 B. Holyday tr. Juvenal Satyres (1673) 149 If he be ask’d, though but by chance, and on the by. 1678 S. Butler Hudibras: Third Pt. iii. i. 35 All he does upon the By, She is not bound to justifie. 1720 J. Clarke Ess. Educ. Youth 67 Let it be done sparingly, and by the Bye. Source: OED ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/4 "2014-06-17T04:49:39Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > (By the bye, I know I could just use “by the way” - or God help us, \*BTW \*- and avoid this whole issue. But I’d rather fight my own ignorance.) So the new internet meme is BTB now, whichever way you think it’s spelled. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/5 "2014-06-17T09:16:03Z")
Hmmm… always thought it was “by the bay”; Where the water melons grow. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/6 "2014-06-17T09:49:08Z")
I’m really surprised to see, by **Inner Stickler** ’s cites, that the expression has such history behind it. I always thought of it as a cutesy alternative to “by the way”- wrong but on purpose as an affectation. It has thus always grated on me. It’s the kind of expression I associate with people who say “anyhoooo”. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/7 "2014-06-17T12:22:46Z")
Just to add to the confusion, I’ve only heard and used “by and by” (spoken only, so I have no clue as to the spelling.) Means roughly “after some span of time has/had elapsed.” As a meaningless space filler “by the way” is common around here. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-by-the-by-or-by-the-bye/690948/8 "2014-06-17T13:54:35Z")
> > [@](#): > > **by the by** (earlier **by a by** , **on** or **upon the by** ): by a side way, on a side issue; as a matter of secondary or subsidiary importance, incidentally, casually, in passing. Obs. or arch. Also in predicative or complemental use (quasi-adj.): > Off the main track, away from the point at issue, of secondary importance, incidental. > > \ > > Merriam-Webster’s _Dictionary of the English Language_ (1864) notes that either _by_ or \*bye (as a noun) could mean “A thing not directly aimed at; something which is a secondary object of regard; an object by the way, and the like; as in _on_ or _upon the bye_, in passing; indirectly; by implication.” The related phrase _by the bye_, it reports, means “in passing; by way of digression; apropos to the matter at hand.” Interestingly, this dictionary does not offer _by the by_ as a variant spelling for _by the bye_.