Speaking as a lawyer myself - over-reliance on one’s own precedents isn’t a good thing. Particularly in drafting contracts, much that is positively harmful can get perpetuated that way.
That being said, the whole dynamic of a professional-client relationship is different. The client is interested in work product at the lowest possible cost, and where one bills by the hour, time literally is money. The client is less interested in your personal growth, except for the fact that they assume you will display some - one’s fees often reflect one’s year of call.
For students, not so much; the focus is not on producing a product, but in learning the skills by doing the work. If the product is produced but no skills are learned and no actual work is done, that’s a shame; if a mark is earned for this, that is cheating - similar to downloading a precedent, changing a few names, and marking "20 hours, research and drafting " for this service in one’s dockets.
Absolutely. No doubt about it. Even Sven was trying to show how things like responsibility and incentives get tossed in a university setting and my point was that resuing old work again is exactly like what you’d do in the real world. There’s that saying about reinventing the wheel.
I think we’re both in agreement that you’re only cheating yourself. If only you could learn and grow and learn and blossom with each and every assignment, the world would be a better place. But sometimes that’s not your goal.
Take Sven’s example. “Let’s say I decided my French needed some brushing up so that I could better work in aid relief in west Africa”
Cool then. Her goal wouldn’t be just passing the class. Her goal is “learn French to the best of her ability so as to use it in the real world.” So if she blew off the assignments, she may pass the class, but she’d fail at her goal.
What if, instead, her goal was literally to pass the class? What if she was in her senior year, job offer in hand pending graduation, and the school required 1 year of, I dunno, American History from 1902 to 1912 in order to complete her major? She’s already taken a year of American History from 1901 to 1911. I’m sure it would be awesome for her to learn everything she possibly could about this new class, but I think turning in a previously completed assignment -if applicable - is perfectly fair game in order to accomplish her goals.
If that were my goal, I’d probably go to the dean of my department and ask why they required the American History 1902-1912 class and what I was expected to get out of it, since it doesn’t seem relevant to my “International Development” program of study. If you really don’t agree with a requirement, almost every university offers some latitude in “designing your own major” or waiving/changing requirements as appropriate. You’d have to plan ahead, of course.
But the relevance of required courses is something you really ought to be researching when you apply for schools. And when you are choosing professors, you need to be asking around to see which professors assign work that is likely to be relevant to you.
If they could not make a convincing argument and I couldn’t change things, it’d be up to me to make the course relevant. I could talk about the process of industrialization and what we might learn that applies to modern under industrialized countries. Or I could talk about how America’s position as a world power at that time relates to its current foreign aid strategy. Or I could discuss the impacts of American colonialism at the time.
Again, professors have office hours for a reason. It’s your job to communicate with them so you can work together on how to make the course as useful as possible. This may include re-submitting or building on previous work. Bring your old paper in and discuss it. That’s what the professor is there for.
First of all, in my (nontraditional) university students are graded based on growth, because everyone who starts in the program when you do goes through classes in a specific order, and each class builds on the previous class.
Second, I know it’s not uncommon nowadays for students to look at education as a business transaction, with professors as essentially customer service reps–and we’ve had this discussion around here before–but I don’t do that and can’t imagine ever adopting that mindset. I went to a liberal arts college because I wanted to be educated, not as a means to a career. I realize my way of thinking is not common, but there it is.
I’m not quite sure I get the argument that you should fail the assignment because you didn’t learn anything new. To me, that’s like saying I should have failed my first two college chemistry tests because I already knew the material covered in them cold and barely even opened my textbook. I didn’t learn anything, I didn’t do any work, so my high 90’s scores should be thrown out and replaced with zeros, which would put me either failing the class or getting a D.
Except nobody would advocate that, because it would be ridiculous and unfair to penalize me for already having put in the work to learn that material. And after all, the point of the test wasn’t to see if I’d learned anything during that semester, it was to see if I knew the material. Which is the exact point of pretty much all the papers I was assigned outside of composition classes.
Yes, if you’re taking a composition class, the point is to improve your writing skills and you’re defeating the purpose by recycling a paper without some serious rewriting. If you’re taking a research/library skills class the point is to get better at doing research and using the library, and you’re defeating the purpose by recycling a paper without doing additional research. But if you’re taking, say, AP Bio or The World of Peasants (like Dave Barry, CCL is not making this up) the purpose is to demonstrate that you understand the material. If you happen to already have a paper about the Salk vaccine or the differences and similarities between ancient Mayan peasants and modern Russian peasants, and it’s a good paper that demonstrates understanding of the material…how does that circumvent the purpose of the assignment?
The purpose of a university paper is not to produce a product demonstrating that you really know “the differences and similarities between ancient Mayan peasants and modern Russian peasants”. It is to learn the process of being able to research and describe those differences, while formulating and arguing with persuasion some sort of thesis concerning those peasants - a process which, presumably, will be transferrable to whatever you do in the future, academically or in the world of business.
There is also the question of marks. Marks basically add up to a certification that the student has completed this difficult task - in essay courses, researching and drafting a (presumably!) original essay. This task is difficult to do successfully, repeatedly. Sometimes one has to write a number of essays over a short period - making the task more difficult. If recycling of essays were legitimate, a person could theoretically put all their effort into writing one really good essay, rather than having to write (as I sometimes did) five in a semester. Moreover, if one recycles old essays, one could pick and choose among them for the one that got a high mark before, thus increasing the odds of a high mark after. This would make the task much easier, and thus resulting in overall higher marks for less work than one’s classmates who do not recycle (after all, that’s why people want to do it in the first place, right?).
In short, it is gaming the system in order to defeat the purpose. Marks so obtained do not certify that one has done a difficult feat - like all other forms of cheating, it devalues everyone elses’ marks, if they don’t cheat. To the extent those marks mean something (a debate unto itself), it ought to be discouraged.
I’m sure this varies from instructor to instructor, but when I assign papers in my upper-level lit classes, most of the time I’m not trying to ascertain whether students have learned the material. That’s what the exams are for. The purpose of the papers is to give students to explore material that I haven’t presented in class; virtually all of the assignments require them to write about a text we haven’t discussed extensively, or a journal article they found on their own, or a research topic of their own choosing. That means taking some intellectual risks and exploring territory where they might not be entirely comfortable, but that’s the whole point. And I do think that “recycling” a paper circumvents an important part of this process and guarantees that the student won’t learn anything new.
On the other hand, they’re perfectly welcome to use one of the shorter papers as a springboard for the final research project, or to apply knowledge and ideas from their other classes (if, say, a psychology major wants to write about mental illness in Shakespeare). That’s the good kind of recycling, the kind that deepens and complicates knowledge the student already possesses.
It is considered cheating at my current university (and I state explicitly in my syllabuses that all work done for my class must be done for THAT class in THAT semester – double dipped papers are usually pretty obvious due to the types of assignments I give).
My grad school (UVa) also considered it cheating at ugrad and grad levels.
My particular program at my uni is small, and yes the faculty do talk to each other about students’ papers – I’ve had colleagues teaching poli sci, lit, and history come up and ask me about the assignments in my classes, as students have attempted to do a twofer.
This is the “adversarial” relationship I am talking about. If a teacher or program is not challenging you or encouraging you to learn, it is 100% your job to go talk to them and see how you can fix that. In this situation, you know exactly how the program is not pushing you (having overlaps in assignments) and you know exactly how to fix that problem (choose topics that do not overlap.)
If you are constantly looking for shortcuts, fake-outs, loopholes and quick fixes, you are going to find them. As members of a community of adults who have a common purpose, teachers are under no obligation to make it literally impossible for a determined slacker to slack.
A student has a greater responsibility towards their education than the teacher.
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(bolding mine)
Perhaps, but that is at the course selection level, not the curriculum level. As a student I do have a “responsibility” to choose courses that interest and challenge me, but also an obligation to take courses that are required of me in order to complete my degree program. It is not my responsibility to alter curriculum when the university offers different courses that cover the same material.
The point is not to be adversarial. Who said anything about ‘constantly looking for fake-outs?’ Or, as you say in a later post losing a ‘sense of responsibility.’ You’re assuming sinister, negative motivations in a situation that does not require them. We’re all busy human beings. Maybe we’re working while attending school. Maybe we’re in an overloaded semester of upper-level classes. Maybe a million other things. If taking advantage of an opportunity to use the knowledge one has to make one part of one’s life a little easier counts as ‘constantly looking for loopholes’ and irresponsible, then we are all guilty of that, both in the course of our education and the rest of our lives. Taken on its own out of context it certainly is sub-optimal with regards to learning new things in that one instance, but it is far from what I would call cheating, and not an ethically wrong thing to do.
Again, it’s so not about ‘slacking’ or it being ‘the teacher’s fault.’
That whole paragraph about how to go about getting the best out of a bad situation is great. But in your example the best option, the one you left out, is that maybe you don’t take the class because it’s a waste of your time. Odds are that a beginning French class is not going to have time to teach a separate, more advanced student concurrently, and even if he/she does, there are probably much more effective uses of your time than learning intermediate/advanced-level French in a beginner’s class.
And, the beauty of a goal like, “I need to improve my French-language skills,” is that you are free to make choices with that one goal in mind. While attempting to earn a degree, getting that diploma and efficiently furthering knowledge/learning do not always run together, and are often at cross-purposes.
I disagree vehemently with this.
Not to be cynical about it, but college is big business. The cost of attending has risen dramatically in even the last 10 years. In some cases tuition has doubled in that time. Demand for degrees is high, because they are in many ways a ticket to employment. Yes, it’s supposed to be about learning stuff, but people aren’t paying $25,000 a year on average just to learn, they’re doing it so that they can get a job when they finish.
I guess I just have to disagree with you both. I feel that there’s often a blind faith in the institution of higher learning in this country, where everything a college asks a student to do is good, worthwhile, and helps them grow. It’s all beneficial and an amazing opportunity. But it’s often forgotten that students are paying often over $1000 a week(!) for 15-18 credit hours worth of tuition. It’s not an opportunity, they’re paying customers. And at that kind of cost I most certainly would say that a school is failing its obligation to its students if it assigns duplicate assignments. Whether or not a student can/should be proactive about coming up with his/her own assignments within a class, the school should be responsible for ensuring that different courses present different material.
It is not cheating or plagiarism.
You are required to draw upon your knowledge, research, experience, resources, etc… to compose your submission, if that happens to include a previous assignment, so what?!
Besides, you would rewrite/revise it to receive a higher grade, wouldn’t you?
You realize that comes with trade-offs, right? Every hour you spend on “course harmonization” or whatever is an hour that you are not spending giving individualized attention to students who play by the rules. The more rigid and specific and assignments are, the less of a chance a student has to work on something that truly inspires them.
Being a teacher is like being a tour guide. If you are taking a bunch of adults on good behavior, you are going to be able to see some amazing things. If you are taking a bunch of people who can’t be trusted not to touch the artwork, jump off the cliffs and insult their hosts, you are going to be limited in where you can take them and end up spending as much time policing their behavior as you spend actually doing fun things.
Okay, let’s look at college purely as a job-mill and forget for the moment about any concern for academia.
In that case - marks are really the point, to “get a job”, right? And with whom are you competing for marks and degrees? With other students, of course, who will be competing with you for jobs!
So forget for the moment about any concern for learning. Say that writing essays is simply make-work, to earn marks and a diploma - purely a task on which you are graded. In that case, handing in duplicate essays is even more obviously cheating!
Think of it this way - the reason people want to hand in duplicate assignments, is to save effort (they only have to write one paper, rather than two or more) and to get a more guaranteed mark (they already know one prof has given that paper a good mark). These are advantages which game the system. The college would do well to strictly police against this, because if everyone were to do it the value of the marks and diploma earned would fall vs. those of universities which policed the system better - if I wanted to hire a grad with straight A’s, whom would I hire, one from university A (where everyone hands in duplicate assignments over and over and its okay) or university B (where each assignment must actually be done)? You know that the “straight A’s” of university A do not represent the same effort as those of university B. They are worth less.
It is absurd to put the onus on universities to arrange the coursework so that this sort of cheating cannot happen. That would eliminate the considerable freedom students are given to design their own thesis assignments.
This gets down to the real purpose of classes and class assignments - are they given to ensure that the student has achieved a required outcome (e.g. perhaps one of the required Outcomes of “History 305 - The Middle Ages” is that the student can write a concise research paper of at least 10 pages supporting a thesis regarding the influence of the Catholic Church on politics.), or is it to make the student improve their skills?
As others have either stated or implied, what happens if someone follows a nontraditional educational path, either studying with private tutors or on their own to the point where they are reasonably educated, but they lack certification? Assume they left High School to join the Army, but they are a very bright individual who spends the next 10 years of their life studying classics and they have a well educated mentor. At age 30, they lose their job and realize that they need a “real” degree to get back in the workforce, so they enroll, and find themselves leagues ahead of the 18 year olds in the freshman college courses they are taking. Is it unfair for our protagonist to get an A by doing the same work as expected of the kids? If not, shouldn’t the protagonist get a higher qualification for reaching a higher height? If we assume that he must improve in every class, and he is already advanced upon enrolling for Freshman classes, then by the time he is trying for his PhD, the bar is set at a Godlike height because he was doing PhD level stuff during his Senior year of undergrad.
That depends on your motivation. If you really think your French is too rusty for the work you are going to do, then you should redo the excercises. If you think your French is decent enough, but you enrolled because you need sponsorship and funding from the Red Cross and they have a policy stating that each aid worker must show a recent language qualification before the Red Cross will commit funds, then I can see why it might be valuable to just resubmit the old work (not legal advice, you might be commiting fraud).
Heh, I don’t think I’ll worry myself too much about prodigies. Are there really any significant number of undergraduate students who simply cannot learn anything in class, such that this is a serious concern?
As I said in my post above yours - assuming for the moment that the sole and only point of university is to “get certification”, allowing this sort of (cheating) devalues the “certification” so given, since it games the system - which is exactly why people do it: to get the same high mark with less aptitude or effort. Thus it ought to be prohibited.
Your hypothetical ‘begs the question’ - it assumes from the start our student is already well qualified. Universities and employers cannot do that. They need marks to go by, and allowing some a short-cut to game the system defeats the purpose.
OK. Hypothetical what-if. Mary Jones is well educated in a practical sense, but she lacks necessary qualifications (maybe she went to an unaccredited school that is not recognized in the jurisdiction that she lives, or she was educated in a foreign school system whose qualifications are not recognized where she is, but she DID get a good education there). She finds that she needs a locally recognized qualification, and determines that she can petition for entrance into a local BA program by exam (she can’t use her actual high school diploma because it was issued by the Outer Vankistan Liberation Army School Initiative Program which is not considered to be a legitimate government in the jurisdiction in which she now lives). What does she do in her classes? She’s already practically qualified, right? Can she not just show that she is qualified by submitting decent work and passing tests? What, practically, shoud Mary do?
She could petition the school or regulatory body to make an exception for her. This sort of thing happens, for example, where lawyers go from one jurisdiction to another - often they can simply apply in the new jurisdiction for admission to the bar, without passing a new bar admission course, for example.
I had a professor in college who is also a lawyer in private practice. He allowed us to use old projects in his class, because he figured that, since he re-uses standard briefs and motions to avoid doing the same work over, we should be allowed and encouraged to do the same. But anything we re-used had to be damn good. I simply re-worked a PowerPoint I did my freshman year and turned it in. The only real time I saved was the research; it still took a lot of time to re-do the PowerPoint slides. And, yes, I got an A.
I also had to submit a portfolio of my old work for graduation; my professor and advisor would have shit kittens if I tried to argue that I should be able to submit only new work in my portfolio because learning is a process, and theoretically, my newest work should be my best work. It doesn’t work that way, and any professor who tried to use that argument with me would be met with a gimlet eye and a firm distrust. (Aside from the lawyer-professor, I never had the opportunity to re-submit anything, because I never had the same topic twice, so it’s just me being a Tough Guy.)
That being said, I would have no issue with a student who wanted to re-submit an old paper, as long as he asked me first. We’d go over it and the assignment would then be for the student to revise, update, and edit it into a better product. The initial paper would give me some idea of the student’s existing writing and research skills, so this would be a good opportunity to teach revision and editing skills.
That seems impossible to me. Plagiarize means to take credit for the writing (or other creative work) of another person; it is impossible to plagiarize myself, just as it is impossible to steal from myself.
Which is not to say that what the OP suggests isn’t academic dishonesty. It might be; I don’t know.
On a somewhat related subject, when one of my sisters and I were in high school, she took a biology class requiring her to gather multiple plant & insect specimens and identify them. I was already doing that as a hobby, so I let her take my collection and turn it in as her own, claiming she had gathered them as a hobby. The next year I used many of the same samples, changed the display, and turned them in again.
Clearly I assisted my sister in cheating way back then. Did I also cheat when I was taking the class? If so, in what way?
