You can do those evaluations before you get the offer. Then the offer will either hit your numbers or it won’t. It’s lazy to wait around for someone to call you before you decide to start thinking about how much money you want.
Well you should know after the interview, at least. There is very little information that’s going to come with the actual offer that you shouldn’t have already anticipated and done the math on. Your numbers should already be set. The offer either hits them or it doesn’t. What more is there to think about?
Lots and lots of people like to wait until they get all the information before they make a choice. They don’t get emotionally invested in something until it’s real. This isn’t lazy, it’s just a way a of approaching things.
Thank you AGAIN, Dio, for refusing to address the issue of what are normal business practices in hiring.
I dare you to find even 1 cite that says it is unreasonable for a prospective employee to be given time to consider a job offer.
I’m expressing a personal opinion. I don’t need a cite for that.
They already have all the information they need. They should already know what kind of salary and benefits pckage will be acceptable. There is no reason to wait until you hear the offer until you decide what offer will be acceptable.
Not for you or for me, frankly. But lots of people don’t opperate hypothetically: until something is concrete, they avoid making a choice. They don’t have a running “If/then” setup. They wait and see. It’s odd to me, too: I need to have all my hypothetical ducks in a row, else I feel terribly anxious. But some people honestly seem to feel the opposite way–they leave things open-ended until all the facts–not just the maybes–are in. It’s different, but it’s not bad or lazy. It’s fine to say that you would never operate this way, but don’t slur people that do.
Furthermore, I have had a couple job offers–and I haven’t done that much job searching, both from youth and the nature of my job–where what they offered me wasn’t really at all what I expected–where I interviewed for position X and they offered me position Y, which wasn’t even really discussed at the interview. I can’t imagine that that is that rare.
I disagree that it’s not bad or lazy. I think it’s immature and lazy and avoidant and that these are people who are probably too intellectually and/or emotionally stunted to be in the work force anyway.
Well, your opinion is totally fucked, and is shared by virtually no one in the business world. I will now bow out of this thread, as it is quite clear you have no interest whatsoever as to whether your opinion is grounded in reality.
Do you pay attention to the people around you AT ALL? I promise, there are many of them like this, and they aren’t stunted. Th
I think Manda JO had to stop her post in order to respond to a potential employer’s phone call. 
Employers have a bottom line, and it is their mission to look out for the good of the organization. Of course they will extend niceties and be as flexible as possible, but they are not going to put themselves in a precarious position for any employee (if they want to stay in business).
The candidate therefore is responsible for considering his or her own best interests. Part of that is carefully considering competing employment offers, discussing the pros and cons with a spouse, and even negotiating the offer. In my most recent job search, I received an offer from my first choice of employer, and as a courtesy to the other employer, I withdrew from their search, even though they wanted to have the opportunity to make an offer to me as well. My considerations were beyond financial - they were geographic, and the other employer couldn’t very well uproot themselves - so I bowed out. Some folks wouldn’t have, but that’s an ethical choice I made.
Dio, you’ve expressed your opinion, and it’s pretty clear that it’s out of step with most people’s opinions and experience. I don’t know what else there is to say about it.
No, I can’t. An offer is more then money, it’s job titles, benefits, vacation, role, responsibilities. Until I get them in writing there is no offer. There are multiple factors, not a simple salary target.
Besides, I’m not doing this on their timetable. If they want me they will be willing to give me time to evaluate this offer with the people who are important to me. Every place I’ve ever been offered a job expects this, every person I’ve ever offered a job I’ve granted this. It’s standard business practices, and to expect people to make life altering decisions on the spot is unrealistic and childish.
The company certainly didn’t make their decision on the spot, neither will I.
I’m glad you’re so thorough and mathematical in your approach, but I don’t believe most of us are. I’ve only once applied for an actual full-time job, and I didn’t have to consider the offer because it was a complete no-brainer for me. But I could see situations where you get an offer on the cusp of what is acceptable to you and you have to actually sit down and think it over. This sort of decision-making is not an IF-THEN-ELSE for most people. What if the employer misses your target salary by only $5K? Maybe you’re so calculated that you’d say “no” without missing a beat, but I reckon most people would at least like to think about it and reconsider their initial numbers. I might think I’m worth $70K and that’s the least I’d accept for a job, but a concrete offer of $65K would certainly have me rethink my initial requirements.
Obviously, your brain doesn’t work this way, but I think you should at least try to understand that many others’ do. For example, when I sold my junker car last year, I told myself I’d only let it go for no less than $350. When I guy showed up and handed me $250 in cash as his offer, I rethought it, decided that a concrete offer of $250 and getting the car out of my garage was worth more than the hypothetical $350 limit I set for myself, and I got rid of the car. And I’m happy I did. For some of us, the actual/concrete cause us to recalibrate what we thought was acceptable in the hypothetical.
I think your attitude is truly fascinating, since the higher up you go in business, the more time (as Harriet pointed out) its normal to take to consider the offer AFTER the offer has been made. Its part of the negotiating tactic at higher levels, quite honestly. Those people who are “too intellectually and/or emotionally” stunted to be in the work force are getting hired as senior management and executives.
I’ve never known the exact terms of the salary benefits package until after the offer is made. And without the exact terms (i.e. a good insurance package that covers the family for very little may be worth $2000 in salary - an extra week of vacation may be worth $2000 in salary), how can I evaluate it. And those sorts of comparisons take time.
But you generally don’t know the terms and conditions of the offer until they make it. How can you decide to accept a job if you don’t know what the offered salary and benefits are going to be?
Diogenes’s position on this matter is bizarre. You’re supposed to just instantly decide the moment they say “Do you want the job or not”? On what planet is that standard business practice? And what idiot accepts a professional job offer without getting it in writing? Virtually all professionals take a day or two, at least, to make this sort of decision; they’re all “emotionally stunted”?
What about negotiations? I might want to make a counteroffer. Is that being “emotionally stunted”? I always thought it was “not being a complete idiot who leaves money on the table.”
Diogenes, I don’t know if you’ve been out of the job market for a really, really long time, but unless you’re applying to work at Burger King, you’ve got to be pretty stupid to say “yes” or “no” the instant they make a verbal offer. A smart person gets it in writing, and that includes not only the salary but every aspect of benefits and other compensation as well, not to mnention a full list of duties and all associated details (e.g. what’s the expected travel?) And talking it over with your spouse is just common sense. And all decent companies expect this.
There’s no way you can necessarily know all this just from the interviews, and some tradeoffs require consideration and discussion with your family. What if someone offers me $125K, but with 120 nights of travel a year? I’d have to talk that one over with my wife; it’s more money than I make now, but a lot more travel. What fool wouldn’t?
I would answer that if this were the Pit.
Hmm. When I first starting working here I accepted the rate quoted over the phone, and declined another position. I started right away so I wouldn’t have gotten the official Congrats letter till after that.
On another job in NYC, I accepted a job with the rate quoted over the phone and promptly gave notice at my current job. I don’t remember when I got a confirmation letter from them, but it was probably some time in the two weeks before I started.
The places I’ve worked have standard benefits so that wouldn’t have been a question.
Huh. Perhaps I need to rethink things in the future.
When I worked in HR, our policy when making offers was to provide the details of the salary, benefits, etc., and then say that we expected that they would like some time to think it over. “I’m sure you’d like to sleep on it. Can we expect to have a decision from you on Monday? … Great! Please feel free to call me if you have any questions in the meantime. We hope you’ll decide to join us at Company X!”
Of course, this is just a sample size of one, but it seemed to be standard.
I don’t understand this at all. Say I have the evaluations done, and they are a function of offers on the table. For example, the minimum salary I would be willing to take is the median of all offers that are still open. If I restrict maximum availability of offers to a single one as you propose, how am I supposed to make an informed decision? You’re reducing something to the secretary problem that doesn’t have to be.
Sorry Diogenes the Cynic but I’m going to have to disagree with you here. I don’t feel like I’m in the position of a beggar when I’m applying for a job. They’re not giving me any more than I am giving them. I think it is perfectly OK to ask for a day to think about it after getting the definitive offer. The company doesn’t know what has changed in my personal life since my last interview and their call offering me a job. If they want to be so unreasonable as to say on the phone “buy now! now! now! this is your last chance offer!” then they’re going to sound like used car salesmen to me and I’ll definitely reject them.
With that being said, I think that after putting all that time into it, it is a shame to let go of an offer that quickly, especially assuming that the Human Resources lady would not be the one you are dealing with. I would use some passive-agressive way to get around it and give yourself time to think - for example “I’m sorry, I have a sudden emergency here and I have to get off the phone, but I will call you back as soon as I can.” Then think about it and give your answer, calling her back when you’re ready. As a recruiter once told me, when you are applying for a job, you want to be in the position of getting the chance to turn down the offer, which gives you more opportunities than letting the company decide that they don’t want to hire you. Give yourself choices whenever possible.