# Is it credible that Sen George Allen claims he didn't know about his Jewish ancestry? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2006, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401 "2006-09-20T12:42:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/41 "2006-09-21T03:28:21Z")
That’s not a bad idea, although I’m not sure she’ll spring for it right now. For the time being, are there some credible net resources I could check on my own? If I so much as figured out where her last name comes from - right now I think it’s Dutch - that’d be news to her. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/42 "2006-09-21T03:29:34Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] I’m curious to know if the OP has revised his opinion after reading this thread. [/QUOTE] In reviewing the responses I suppose it’s possible. I am quite surprised at the level of negative stigma associated with being Jewish for first generation immigrants. Different times I suppose. Out of curiosity Bricker, being a somewhat conservative, politically active Virginian what’s your opinion of Senator Allen as a leader? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/43 "2006-09-21T03:35:32Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] That’s not a bad idea, although I’m not sure she’ll spring for it right now. For the time being, are there some credible net resources I could check on my own? If I so much as figured out where her last name comes from - right now I think it’s Dutch - that’d be news to her. [/QUOTE] I’m of Dutch descent. 😃 (Pretty much all Dutch, and I used that method to find my paternal great-grandfather’s info because my mother knew nothing about him or anyone further back in her father’s line.) I found a good chunk of info simply by Googling, really - I turned up databases that people had posted online of their own genealogies that included common ancestors. I’ve heard that [ancestry.com](http://ancestry.com) is a popular resource, though of course parts require a subscription for more info. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/44 "2006-09-21T04:59:02Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] That’s not a bad idea, although I’m not sure she’ll spring for it right now. For the time being, are there some credible net resources I could check on my own? If I so much as figured out where her last name comes from - right now I think it’s Dutch - that’d be news to her. [/QUOTE] I must type weird since my pc is going screwy when I hit certain keys. Anyway try [www.rootsweb.com](http://www.rootsweb.com) or [www.familysearch.org](http://www.familysearch.org) Go to the site [genforum.genealogy.com](http://genforum.genealogy.com) slash finn slash Every time I hit slash it messes up so enter the slash down by your right shift key. Good luck. No apostrophe P.S. My mothers birth mother claims she forgot who the father was. Only that he was Hawaiian - Portuguese. And Ive known lots of families with secrets so not surprising that he wouldn’t know. Well, google spell check fixed that last one. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/45 "2006-09-21T05:01:08Z")
A slight hijack. From J.R.R. Tolkien’s 1938 letter to a German publisher who had inquired about whether or not he had “Aryan” blood: _I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by ‘arisch’. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. … But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people… I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride._ A class act, that Tolkien. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/46 "2006-09-21T05:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I think He was Hispanic, wasn’t He? Of course, there was considerable controversy about who His Father was, let alone his grandfather… Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] He was his own father. There was an accident with a condom dispenser, a time machine, a turkey baster, and a box of rubber bands. Nobody likes to talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/47 "2006-09-21T05:54:46Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] A slight hijack. From J.R.R. Tolkien’s 1938 letter to a German publisher who had inquired about whether or not he had “Aryan” blood: _I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by ‘arisch’. I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. … But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people… I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride._ A class act, that Tolkien. [/QUOTE] ::glaring:: That’s PROFESSOR Tolkien to you, Dunadan!! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/48 "2006-09-21T11:22:27Z")
According to an article in this morning’s _Washington Post_, George Allen’s mother says (in a telephone interview with a reporter from the _Post_) that she told him in August quite specifically that she was of Jewish ancestry and was raised as a Jew. So, yes, George Allen did know when the reporter asked him at the press conference about his mother’s Jewish ancestry that he was Jewish. And it’s not something that he learned about long ago and might conceivable have forgotten about. He learned about his mother’s ancestry only about a month before, and it appears that his mother treated this as a big announcement, not just a small fact dropped into conversation. When Allen, in reply to the question in the press conference on Monday, said that as far as he knew, she was raised as a Christian, that’s clearly not true. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/49 "2006-09-21T12:40:27Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] According to an article in this morning’s _Washington Post_, George Allen’s mother says (in a telephone interview with a reporter from the _Post_) that she told him in August quite specifically that she was of Jewish ancestry and was raised as a Jew. So, yes, George Allen did know when the reporter asked him at the press conference about his mother’s Jewish ancestry that he was Jewish. And it’s not something that he learned about long ago and might conceivable have forgotten about. He learned about his mother’s ancestry only about a month before, and it appears that his mother treated this as a big announcement, not just a small fact dropped into conversation. When Allen, in reply to the question in the press conference on Monday, said that as far as he knew, she was raised as a Christian, that’s clearly not true. [/QUOTE] I therefore retract my phony apology above and stand by my original claim that Allen certainly knew of his Jewish heritage. 😉 Here’s the relevant WP cite, which raises a few questions about Allen’s truthfulness on this matter. At the least, Allen didn’t _want_ to know whether he had Jewish ancestry: "Allen’s Jewish heritage has been a subject of low-level political speculation for years, in part because the former governor and first-term senator often refers to his grandfather’s incarceration by the Nazis in political speeches. But Allen has always said Lumbroso was a member of the Free French resistance movement and insisted that he and his mother were raised as Christians. Fox has said her question was prompted by an article in a Jewish newspaper that had explored his heritage last month. “You’ve been quoted as saying your mother’s not Jewish, but it had been reported her father, your grandfather Felix, whom you were given your middle name for, was Jewish,” Fox asked Allen. “Could you please tell us whether your forebearers include Jews, and if so, at which point Jewish identity might have ended?” ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/50 "2006-09-21T12:45:54Z")
A bit more from the WP: Allen’s angry reaction at the Chamber of Commerce debate prompted criticism from Internet bloggers and some Jewish leaders, some of whom accused him of hiding his Jewish ancestry or viewing it as a political problem. “It’s strange that George Allen wasn’t more curious about his own heritage and a lot of people are wondering why,” said George Mason University politics professor Mark J. Rozell. Allen’s mother said she first began concealing her Jewish roots after meeting her future husband, afraid that she would not be accepted by his parents and fearful that her religion could harm his budding coaching career, which started at Whittier College, a school in Southern California founded by Quakers. “He didn’t want me to tell his mother,” she said of the elder George Allen. “At that time, that was a no-no, to marry outside the church.” Allen died in 1990. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/51 "2006-09-21T13:04:56Z")
I can believe he didn’t know. Some of my best friends don’t know they’re Jewish. This is non-issue, except that he may lose some bigot votes. Macaca was a huge gaffe, this is just a miniscule bit of trivia. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/52 "2006-09-21T13:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I can believe he didn’t know. Some of my best friends don’t know they’re Jewish. This is non-issue, except that he may lose some bigot votes. Macaca was a huge gaffe, this is just a minuscule bit of trivia. [/QUOTE] That whole “Macaca” brouhaha was kind of off my radar. What’s the gist of it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/53 "2006-09-21T13:58:52Z")
[QUOTE=astro] That whole “Macaca” brouhaha was kind of off my radar. What’s the gist of it? [/QUOTE] A kid wearing a t-shirt supporting Allen’s opponent and carrying a camcorder went into one of Allen’s rallies; Allen noticed the kid, and called him a “Macaca” and said “Welcome to the real America! Welcome to the real Virginia!” Allen claimed later that he used the term Macaca as a nonsense word making fun of the kid’s Mohawk haircut, but others state that it’s a derogatory term used against blacks by French colonials (which Allen’s mother happens to be). Opponents also claim that Allen’s “Welcome to the real America!” was supposed to be an intimation that anyone of color couldn’t actually be American, but that claim is way more specious and hasn’t picked up the legs that the “Macaca” term did - given that Allen is claiming that he represents Virginia while his opponent represents Hollywood, I personally don’t think it’s a big deal. The Macaca thing, though - definitely troubling. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/54 "2006-09-21T14:29:46Z")
[QUOTE=John Corrado] A kid wearing a t-shirt supporting Allen’s opponent and carrying a camcorder went into one of Allen’s rallies; Allen noticed the kid, and called him a “Macaca” and said “Welcome to the real America! Welcome to the real Virginia!” Allen claimed later that he used the term Macaca as a nonsense word making fun of the kid’s Mohawk haircut, but others state that it’s a derogatory term used against blacks by French colonials (which Allen’s mother happens to be). Opponents also claim that Allen’s “Welcome to the real America!” was supposed to be an intimation that anyone of color couldn’t actually be American, but that claim is way more specious and hasn’t picked up the legs that the “Macaca” term did - given that Allen is claiming that he represents Virginia while his opponent represents Hollywood, I personally don’t think it’s a big deal. The Macaca thing, though - definitely troubling. [/QUOTE] Thanks! That fleshes out the brief mention in the [Post Article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092001965.html) I had forgotten he was the son of the late, legendary Redskins Coach [George Allen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_(football)) until the article mentioned it in passing. And the wiki article references this [The Fifth Quarter](http://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Quarter-Jennifer-Allen/dp/1587883368) > [@](#): > > Allen’s daughter Jennifer wrote a book about her relationship with her father entitled the Fifth Quarter which outlined the man’s icy demeanor toward his family, and his obsession with football to the exclusion of all else. > [@](#): > > From School Library Journal > > Adult/High School-To fans, football is a great way to pass a crisp, autumn afternoon. But for Jennifer Allen, it was the culture around which her life revolved. Her father, Coach George Allen, focused like a laser beam on the game. He never learned to spell his daughter’s name correctly. He was never home for dinners or birthdays or Christmas. Jennifer recounts her life in short chapters as her father made the L.A. Rams a winning team and brought a championship to the Washington Redskins. The entire family kowtowed to his every wish and whim. Her brothers kept statistics on the sidelines; Jennifer’s job was to turn the channels on the television so that her father could see all the sportscasts on the news. Her mother reveled in her public role as Mrs. George Allen, but mother and daughter relished the freedom they had when her father and brothers left for training camp. Jennifer’s French mother, a chain-smoker who could swear a blue streak and find irony in every situation, provided the comic relief to her husband’s intensity. In a loving look at life with a dominating, driven coach, Allen provides an inside look at football, life in the sports limelight, and the `70s as she grows from a child to a rebellious young woman struggling to find her place in the world.-Jane S. Drabkin, Potomac Community Library, Woodbridge, VA Mommy doesn’t sound quite as meek as the Post article portrays her. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/55 "2006-09-21T15:16:30Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] When Allen, in reply to the question in the press conference on Monday, said that as far as he knew, she was raised as a Christian, that’s clearly not true. [/QUOTE] To be fair, in the article she says she made him promise not to tell anyone. Although she said she’s never heard the word “macaca” before either… ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/56 "2006-09-21T15:59:00Z")
I’ve never done any in-depth genealogical research, but it’s come up enough in casual family conversation that I can say with confidence that I have absolutely no filthy, greedy Allens in my history. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2006, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/57 "2006-09-21T18:22:54Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] ::glaring:: That’s PROFESSOR Tolkien to you, Dunadan!! [/QUOTE] I’ll call him whatever the hell I want to, for behold, I wield Anduril, the Flame of the West! Besides, C.S. Lewis called him “Tollers.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/58 "2006-09-22T01:13:40Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I’ll call him whatever the hell I want to, for behold, I wield Anduril, the Flame of the West! Besides, C.S. Lewis called him “Tollers.” 😛 [/QUOTE] ::scowling, takes out Orcrist & assumes dueling pose:: ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/59 "2006-09-22T03:03:53Z")
Marley23 writes: \> To be fair, in the article she says she made him promise not to tell anyone. That’s why I said that his statement that his mother was raised as a Christian, as far as he knew, was clearly not true, since his mother said she told him she was of Jewish ancestry and was raised Jewish just a month before the press conference. I did not say that he was lying. Whether he had an obligation to deny her Jewish heritage (because he promised not to tell anyone) is another question, and it’s one I’m not going to get into. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401/60 "2006-09-22T12:14:00Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I’ll call him whatever the hell I want to, for behold, I wield Anduril, the Flame of the West! [/QUOTE] That **ain’t** Anduril, and you “wield” it every time you “pay rent on your beer”. 😛😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-it-credible-that-sen-george-allen-claims-he-didnt-know-about-his-jewish-ancestry/373401.md?page=2)